X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from omr-d08.mx.aol.com ([205.188.109.207] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.7) with ESMTPS id 6487925 for lml@lancaironline.net; Tue, 24 Sep 2013 09:30:24 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.188.109.207; envelope-from=Sky2high@aol.com Received: from mtaomg-ma05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-ma05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.41.12]) by omr-d08.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id 4B1E57000008E for ; Tue, 24 Sep 2013 09:29:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from core-mtb001c.r1000.mail.aol.com (core-mtb001.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.29.234.193]) by mtaomg-ma05.r1000.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id 1D341E000090 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 2013 09:29:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Sky2high@aol.com Full-name: Sky2high Message-ID: <86e32.386908cf.3f72edcd@aol.com> Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2013 09:29:50 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [LML] anti-skid (ABS) brakes on the Lancair To: lml@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_86e32.386908cf.3f72edcd_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 9.6 sub 168 X-Originating-IP: [67.175.156.123] x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20121107; t=1380029390; bh=8A/mRZEShYo9f/qAayqh/eQ3yNoiUWqZc1/iOjTkbQI=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=LhLsbgpb2hKORi+WSzTQWWv/zJwuCbNWsT5ic+ljusUTNdh+1xQjHWyATGMpcyBGl OIRsLd+eVZ0KsMYRII8uzk0y1T47jnvhw/oSqf/eVi3Av1yMZrPEhk7cEikKQQzoq/ BjIa2X1EH/VVkP9lLz4vRicNKZi0tTEPwD4/5FE4= x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d290c524193ce4910 --part1_86e32.386908cf.3f72edcd_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Interesting. I see the T-45 has nose-wheel steering - I.E. it is not steered by differential wheel braking. An ABS system for wee Lancairs would require main wheel independence. Take off rolls frequently required tapping the right brake to stay on the centerline until the rudder has authority - all of that caused by the left turning tendencies induced by the prop and resulting airflow. I like the logic that the T-45 ABS system waited until the wheels were spun up on landing. Do the wheels spin up properly on patchy ice? Grayhawk PS: I only have one brake pedal in my car for all 4 wheels, 2 pedals in the plane. Hmmmmm, the BMW and Honda touring motorcycles offer ABS braking, independent for front and rear wheels as there are separate controls for each. In a message dated 9/24/2013 6:40:32 A.M. Central Daylight Time, cwfmd@yahoo.com writes: USN T-45 has awesome anti skid IPs would demo holding brakes on touchdown during "no flare" navy style landing System was smart enough to allow wheels to spool up to ground speed and then apply max braking. I have heard the system compensates at millisecond response time so it is a far better feedback system than human perception based on yaw and Gx sensing. Human perception loop is at least 300 msec and probably much longer. I suggest the steering and icing concerns have already been addressed in standard automotive systems. This reasoning also explains why an interface to a fast inertial sensor is required, as in AHRS (40 packet bursts/second on grtAvionics.com) Sent from my iPad -- For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html --part1_86e32.386908cf.3f72edcd_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Interesting.  I see the T-45 has nose-wheel steering - I.E. it is= not=20 steered by differential wheel braking.  An ABS system for wee Lancairs= =20 would require main wheel independence.  Take off rolls frequently requ= ired=20 tapping the right brake to stay on the centerline until the rudder has= =20 authority - all of that caused by the left turning tendencies induced = by=20 the prop and resulting airflow. 
 
I like the logic that the T-45 ABS system waited until the wheels were= spun=20 up on landing.  Do the wheels spin up properly on patchy=20 ice? 
 
Grayhawk
 
PS:  I only have one brake pedal in my car for all 4 wheels, 2 pe= dals=20 in the plane.  Hmmmmm, the BMW and Honda touring motorcycles offe= r ABS=20 braking, independent for front and rear wheels as there are separate contro= ls=20 for each.
 
 
In a message dated 9/24/2013 6:40:32 A.M. Central Daylight Time,=20 cwfmd@yahoo.com writes:
= USN T-45=20 has awesome anti skid
IPs would demo holding brakes on touchdown durin= g "no=20 flare" navy style landing
System was smart enough to allow wheels to s= pool=20 up to ground speed and then apply max braking. I have heard the system=20 compensates at millisecond response time so it is a far better feedback s= ystem=20 than human perception based on yaw and Gx sensing. Human perception loop = is at=20 least 300 msec and probably much longer.
I suggest the steering and ic= ing=20 concerns have already been addressed in standard automotive systems. This= =20 reasoning also explains why an interface to a fast inertial sensor is=20 required, as in AHRS (40 packet bursts/second on grtAvionics.com)

= Sent=20 from my iPad
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For archives and unsub=20 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html<= /DIV> --part1_86e32.386908cf.3f72edcd_boundary--