X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2013 08:12:49 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from fmailhost02.isp.att.net ([207.115.11.52] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.7) with ESMTP id 6482915 for lml@lancaironline.net; Thu, 19 Sep 2013 22:22:06 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=207.115.11.52; envelope-from=bbradburry@bellsouth.net Received: from desktop (adsl-98-85-111-127.mco.bellsouth.net[98.85.111.127]) by isp.att.net (frfwmhc02) with SMTP id <20130920022132H0200japfme>; Fri, 20 Sep 2013 02:21:32 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [98.85.111.127] From: "Bill Bradburry" X-Original-To: "'Lancair Mailing List'" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: [LML] Re: Legacy down in Geraldton, Western Australia X-Original-Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2013 22:21:32 -0400 X-Original-Message-ID: <73AD81E9DFA14DF3B8373E2A698F0A35@Desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001B_01CEB586.99054E70" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: Ac61n9UZ5gq59JJNSpe1KBOSWstsrgABzkTA X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18463 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01CEB586.99054E70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It was a stupid pilot trick that I hope nobody else feels the need to do. The surprise of the canopy popping up at such a critical time can be devastating. My first reaction was to reach up to grab it, but I immediately realized the futility of that and pulled power and grabbed the stick and 'put er down!'. The damage was a toe in change on the left main and the operating limitations blew out and were never recovered! Luckily I had made a copy of the limitations. Bill _____ From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Gary Weeks Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 9:22 PM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] Re: Legacy down in Geraldton, Western Australia Many thanks Bill for sharing that first hand account of an unlatched canopy. My comment was a reflection of what I had been told or had read somewhere previously (not from actual experience) and I am happy to be corrected, especially from those who have been there and done that. Yes we need to carefully check the canopy is latched before takeoff. Thanks again. Gary Sent from my iPad On 19/09/2013, at 11:41 PM, "Bill Bradburry" wrote: I am sorry, Gary, but I have to disagree with that third sentence. The Legacy can NOT be flown safely with the canopy unlatched! If you take off with the canopy unlatched, you MAY survive.I did! You MAY not damage the plane.I did! Several others have not survived. It is a harrowing experience! I now check the canopy latch several times before each takeoff! When the canopy is closed it takes a little extra force to move it up off the canopy seal, then it is easier to raise and you have the gas struts helping you. So at about 60 knots, the canopy will suddenly pop up and go all the way or nearly to the stops. This action blanks off the elevator and you lose pitch control. The canopy then is blown back down and you temporarily regain pitch control before it is sucked back up for another round. By the time it is headed back up the second time, you had better have the power off and using that short instance of pitch control to get the plane either on the ground or close enough for a hard landing. If this happened at 100 feet or so, flowers would be in order. It is possible that you could unlatch the canopy at cruise speed and it would only open a few inches, but when you tried to land, the lack of prop blast would put you back into this regime. I don't recommend trying any of it. Latch the damn canopy! Bill B _____ From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Gary Weeks Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 7:44 AM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] Re: Legacy down in Geraldton, Western Australia Not quiet right Fred. VH-ALP has the standard canopy hinged from the front. I am not certain if it was or wasn't a training flight, but hear there was only one on board. The aircraft can be flown safely with the canopy unlatched as it trails in the slip stream. It would however be very distracting and noisy. If in fact it was an unlocked canopy that caused this accident it is not the first Legacy to be lost in that manner. Oshkosh about 3 years ago saw a similar accident. I hope Gerry recovers from the terrible burns he has received. Gary Weeks On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 12:32 PM, Frederick Moreno wrote: A friend sent me the news report and just called after phoning contacts he knows at the Geraldton Airport which is about 200 miles north of Perth on the Coast. An imported US-built Legacy crashed shortly after take off, rolled on impact and burned. It was a training mission, first report is crew badly injured. Airport personnel were very quickly at the crash site. My friend learned in subsequent phone calls that while Legacy aircraft have the canopy hinged at the front, this one had the canopy hinged at the BACK (mistake number one). At about 200 feet it popped open, but did not break off and so created huge drag and probably blanked the vertical stabilizer and rudder. Pilot attempted to turn back to the runway (mistake number two). Sink rate soared during the turn and the plane went down. Two huge mistakes in a row. It beggars belief. Fred Moreno ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01CEB586.99054E70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

It was a stupid pilot trick that I = hope nobody else feels the need to do.  The surprise of the canopy = popping up at such a critical time can be devastating.  My first reaction was = to reach up to grab it, but I immediately realized the futility of that and = pulled power and grabbed the stick and ‘put er down!’.  =

 

The damage was a toe in change on = the left main and the operating limitations blew out and were never = recovered!  Luckily I had made a copy of the limitations.

 

Bill

 

From: = Lancair Mailing List = [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Gary Weeks
Sent: Thursday, September = 19, 2013 9:22 PM
To: = lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Re: Legacy = down in Geraldton, Western Australia

 

Many thanks Bill for sharing that first hand account of an = unlatched canopy.

 

My comment was a reflection of what I had been told or had read somewhere previously (not from actual experience) and I am happy to be corrected, especially from those who have been there and done = that.

 

Yes we need to carefully check the canopy is latched before = takeoff. Thanks again.

 

Gary=

 



Sent from my iPad


On 19/09/2013, at 11:41 PM, "Bill Bradburry" <bbradburry@bellsouth.net>= wrote:

I am sorry, Gary, but I have to = disagree with that third sentence.  The Legacy can NOT be flown safely with the = canopy unlatched!  If you take off with the canopy unlatched, you MAY survive…I did!  You MAY not damage the plane…I = did!  Several others have not survived.  It is a harrowing = experience!  I now check the canopy latch several times before each = takeoff!

 

When the canopy is closed it takes = a little extra force to move it up off the canopy seal, then it is easier = to raise and you have the gas struts helping you.  So at about 60 = knots, the canopy will suddenly pop up and go all the way or nearly to the stops.  = This action blanks off the elevator and you lose pitch control.  The = canopy then is blown back down and you temporarily regain pitch control before = it is sucked back up for another round.  By the time it is headed back up = the second time, you had better have the power off and using that short = instance of pitch control to get the plane either on the ground or close enough for = a hard landing.  If this happened at 100 feet or so, flowers would be in = order.

 

It is possible that you could = unlatch the canopy at cruise speed and it would only open a few inches, but when you = tried to land, the lack of prop blast would put you back into this = regime.  I don’t recommend trying any of it.  Latch the damn = canopy!

 

Bill = B

 

From: = Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of Gary Weeks
Sent: Thursday, September = 19, 2013 7:44 AM
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Re: Legacy = down in Geraldton, = Western = Australia

 

Not quiet right Fred.

 

VH-ALP has the standard canopy hinged from the front. I am not = certain if it was or wasn't a training flight, but hear there was only one on = board.

 

The aircraft can be flown safely with the canopy unlatched as it = trails in the slip stream. It would however be very distracting and = noisy.

 

If in fact it was an unlocked canopy that caused this accident = it is not the first Legacy to be lost in that manner. Oshkosh about 3 years ago saw a similar = accident.

 

I hope Gerry recovers from the terrible burns he has = received.

 

Gary Weeks

 

On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 12:32 PM, Frederick Moreno <frederickmoreno@bigpond.com> wrote:

A friend sent me the news report and just = called after phoning contacts he knows at the Geraldton Airport which is about 200 = miles north of Perth on = the Coast.  An imported US-built Legacy crashed shortly after take = off, rolled on impact and burned.  It was a training mission, = first report is crew badly injured.  Airport personnel were very = quickly at the crash site.

 

My friend learned in subsequent phone calls = that while Legacy aircraft have the canopy hinged at the front, this one = had the canopy hinged at the BACK (mistake number one).  At about 200 = feet it popped open, but did not break off and so created huge drag and = probably blanked the vertical stabilizer and rudder.  Pilot attempted to = turn back to the runway (mistake number two).  Sink rate soared during = the turn and the plane went down. =

 

Two huge mistakes in a row.  It = beggars belief.

 

Fred = Moreno

 

 

 

<= /u1:smarttagtype>
------=_NextPart_000_001B_01CEB586.99054E70--