X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2013 21:22:03 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from mail-pd0-f173.google.com ([209.85.192.173] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.7) with ESMTPS id 6482694 for lml@lancaironline.net; Thu, 19 Sep 2013 18:01:58 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.192.173; envelope-from=g.weeks550@gmail.com Received: by mail-pd0-f173.google.com with SMTP id p10so8916745pdj.4 for ; Thu, 19 Sep 2013 15:01:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.67.1.101 with SMTP id bf5mr5109616pad.50.1379628082134; Thu, 19 Sep 2013 15:01:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from [192.168.0.5] (184.13.233.220.static.exetel.com.au. [220.233.13.184]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id wp8sm11442929pbc.26.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 19 Sep 2013 15:01:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Legacy down in Geraldton, Western Australia References: From: Gary Weeks Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-5D707B32-5566-4B0A-9FD8-8C4C90FACCF4 X-Mailer: iPad Mail (10B329) In-Reply-To: X-Original-Message-Id: <536F7A4F-B6B3-4272-8A5E-3B962E657514@gmail.com> X-Original-Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2013 08:01:18 +1000 X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) --Apple-Mail-5D707B32-5566-4B0A-9FD8-8C4C90FACCF4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Many thanks Bill for sharing that first hand account of an unlatched canopy.= My comment was a reflection of what I had been told or had read somewhere pr= eviously (not from actual experience) and I am happy to be corrected, especi= ally from those who have been there and done that. Yes we need to carefully check the canopy is latched before takeoff. Thanks a= gain. Gary Sent from my iPad On 19/09/2013, at 11:41 PM, "Bill Bradburry" wrot= e: > I am sorry, Gary, but I have to disagree with that third sentence. The Le= gacy can NOT be flown safely with the canopy unlatched! If you take off wit= h the canopy unlatched, you MAY survive=E2=80=A6I did! You MAY not damage t= he plane=E2=80=A6I did! Several others have not survived. It is a harrowin= g experience! I now check the canopy latch several times before each takeof= f! > =20 > When the canopy is closed it takes a little extra force to move it up off t= he canopy seal, then it is easier to raise and you have the gas struts helpi= ng you. So at about 60 knots, the canopy will suddenly pop up and go all th= e way or nearly to the stops. This action blanks off the elevator and you l= ose pitch control. The canopy then is blown back down and you temporarily r= egain pitch control before it is sucked back up for another round. By the t= ime it is headed back up the second time, you had better have the power off a= nd using that short instance of pitch control to get the plane either on the= ground or close enough for a hard landing. If this happened at 100 feet or= so, flowers would be in order. > =20 > It is possible that you could unlatch the canopy at cruise speed and it wo= uld only open a few inches, but when you tried to land, the lack of prop bla= st would put you back into this regime. I don=E2=80=99t recommend trying an= y of it. Latch the damn canopy! > =20 > Bill B > =20 > From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Gar= y Weeks > Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 7:44 AM > To: lml@lancaironline.net > Subject: [LML] Re: Legacy down in Geraldton, Western Australia > =20 > Not quiet right Fred. > =20 > VH-ALP has the standard canopy hinged from the front. I am not certain if i= t was or wasn't a training flight, but hear there was only one on board. > =20 > The aircraft can be flown safely with the canopy unlatched as it trails in= the slip stream. It would however be very distracting and noisy. > =20 > If in fact it was an unlocked canopy that caused this accident it is not t= he first Legacy to be lost in that manner. Oshkosh about 3 years ago saw a s= imilar accident. > =20 > I hope Gerry recovers from the terrible burns he has received. > =20 > Gary Weeks > =20 >=20 > On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 12:32 PM, Frederick Moreno wrote: > A friend sent me the news report and just called after phoning contacts he= knows at the Geraldton Airport which is about 200 miles north of Perth on t= he Coast. An imported US-built Legacy crashed shortly after take off, rolle= d on impact and burned. It was a training mission, first report is crew bad= ly injured. Airport personnel were very quickly at the crash site. > =20 > My friend learned in subsequent phone calls that while Legacy aircraft hav= e the canopy hinged at the front, this one had the canopy hinged at the BACK= (mistake number one). At about 200 feet it popped open, but did not break o= ff and so created huge drag and probably blanked the vertical stabilizer and= rudder. Pilot attempted to turn back to the runway (mistake number two). S= ink rate soared during the turn and the plane went down. > =20 > Two huge mistakes in a row. It beggars belief. > =20 > Fred Moreno > =20 > =20 > =20 --Apple-Mail-5D707B32-5566-4B0A-9FD8-8C4C90FACCF4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Many thanks Bill for sharing that firs= t hand account of an unlatched canopy.

My comment w= as a reflection of what I had been told or had read somewhere previously (no= t from actual experience) and I am happy to be corrected, especially from th= ose who have been there and done that.

Yes we need t= o carefully check the canopy is latched before takeoff. Thanks again.
<= div>
Gary



Sent from my iPad

On 19/09/2013, at 11:41 PM, "Bill Bradburry" <bbradburry@bellsouth.net> wrote:
=

I am sorry, Gary, but I have to disagre= e with that third sentence.  The Legacy can NOT be flown safely with the canopy unlatched!  If you take off with the canopy unlatched, you MAY survive=E2=80=A6I did!  You MAY not damage the plane=E2=80=A6I did!&nbs= p; Several others have not survived.  It is a harrowing experience!  I now ch= eck the canopy latch several times before each takeoff!=

 

When the canopy is closed it takes a little extra force to move it up off the canopy seal, then it is easier to raise and you have the gas struts helping you.  So at about 60 knots, t= he canopy will suddenly pop up and go all the way or nearly to the stops. = This action blanks off the elevator and you lose pitch control.  The canopy then is blown back down and you temporarily regain pitch control before it i= s sucked back up for another round.  By the time it is headed back up the= second time, you had better have the power off and using that short instance= of pitch control to get the plane either on the ground or close enough for a ha= rd landing.  If this happened at 100 feet or so, flowers would be in order= .

 

It is possible that you could unlatch t= he canopy at cruise speed and it would only open a few inches, but when you tri= ed to land, the lack of prop blast would put you back into this regime.  I= don=E2=80=99t recommend trying any of it.  Latch the damn canopy!

 

Bill B

 

From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Gary Weeks
Sent: Thursday, September 19,= 2013 7:44 AM
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Re: Legacy dow= n in Geraldton, Western Australia

 

Not quiet right Fred.

 

VH-ALP has the standard canopy hinged from the front. I am not certa= in if it was or wasn't a training flight, but hear there was only one on board.=

 

The aircraft can be flown safely with the canopy unlatched as it tra= ils in the slip stream. It would however be very distracting and noisy.

 

If in fact it was an unlocked canopy that caused this accident it is= not the first Legacy to be lost in that manner. Oshkosh about 3 years ago saw a simi= lar accident.

 

I hope Gerry recovers from the terrible burns he has received.<= /o:p>

 

Gary Weeks

 <= /font>

On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 12:32 PM, Frederick Moreno <frederickmoreno@bigpond.= com> wrote:

=

A friend sent me the news report and just called after phoning contacts he knows at the Geraldto= n Airport which is about 200 mile= s north of Perth on the Coast.  An imported US-built Legacy crashed shortly after take= off, rolled on impact and burned.  It was a training mission, first report is crew badly injured.  Airport personnel were very quickly at= the crash site.

 

My friend learned in subsequent phone calls that while Legacy aircraft have the canopy hinged at the front, this one had th= e canopy hinged at the BACK (mistake number one).  At about 200 feet it= popped open, but did not break off and so created huge drag and probably blanked the vertical stabilizer and rudder.  Pilot attempted to turn back to the runway (mistake number two).  Sink rate soared during the= turn and the plane went down.

 

Two huge mistakes in a row.  It beggars belief.=

 

Fred Moreno
=

 

=  

 

= --Apple-Mail-5D707B32-5566-4B0A-9FD8-8C4C90FACCF4--