X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 11:26:42 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from nm19-vm0.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com ([98.139.213.162] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.7) with ESMTPS id 6472355 for lml@lancaironline.net; Thu, 12 Sep 2013 10:58:19 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=98.139.213.162; envelope-from=rjones2000@sbcglobal.net Received: from [98.139.212.153] by nm19.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Sep 2013 14:57:44 -0000 Received: from [98.139.211.193] by tm10.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Sep 2013 14:57:44 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp202.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Sep 2013 14:57:44 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 181823.79303.bm@smtp202.mail.bf1.yahoo.com X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: wYskO6gVM1kKzOkMYFn3Z_.rDVhFcPC.y_OLxj1NRBLPx_6 X1.GO8W.fI0QBlwy9y1SOz2q0oi13VDVHtjPywyd68f_qa3bPtcnz1x8Lcc9 71Vu5mnxgoll8nGIWPcjw7jvaKxhbsoL_yLe__3CdfPQ1qoACHhOiWB64f10 _NwxYsgVDLotCapSGF4GkrDsxeMMRkvu0y2unnjcEWaiv22r4_cqKSp86uX2 tqiTPrhdboSXL3XUzlO_T.oSFLq__haJRjrp56URU.XH9ic4ucYRnAiFedPI EOTCI4dEdMN3xZnTc6dXsZXtIpXHuyOGi2YtD97AbD6xC6mJaqym5r07eMd2 AVMRVqZT5o0KuqsfGceZ4nvMWrVFdUw99l8T0AuGdUkdX4SEZ8Rqnhmg0WKM yw3gfeqvu_1ntESDeiyw3lylGYryvJPy_lyeZW3_h2k55HMG980h4CAA03va mgaEoxiQc0y0pGvrCXyWLinKHBISevwU3irDc8AcwrGiSsvbYj2CzuERwdr1 q0zuGDOjetIpbNwjtZbd3A5uhVqeugqboqLFb.VXPO_V_viCV8U8_nrtpQNu RWfOx7I_XIhNzB7rR4V8vdFsMp7QXek2z_F2c_89abxRvNp.HMe2yxyP1G9r p216osoD3cVSGqqzjxWOxKkceG0kpjaFhFrbkcaGHBf8SK.nJqlBnI49gRpn bEO1nQsoPOhE6NyYaDGrCMEcvACeNVQ-- X-Yahoo-SMTP: qom3qKeswBCS7l.XERKRbiNwk_aq93o2mA-- X-Rocket-Received: from [192.168.1.71] (rjones2000@108.251.69.218 with ) by smtp202.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Sep 2013 07:57:44 -0700 PDT Subject: Re: [LML] Re: TOO MUCH SUN & iPad overheat References: From: Ron Jones Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-87994253-A2D8-4B95-94AC-7D9324B29207 X-Mailer: iPad Mail (10B329) In-Reply-To: X-Original-Message-Id: X-Original-Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 07:57:43 -0700 X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) --Apple-Mail-87994253-A2D8-4B95-94AC-7D9324B29207 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It's rumored that the next iPad mini is due soon and may have the brighter r= etina display. Personally, I think the smaller size of the mini is better fo= r our cockpits which were never designed with the iPad in mind. I plan to wa= it until a mini with a retina display is available. My wife will then inheri= t my iPad 3 (with retina). I think the iPad mini with retina will be the best available solution to usi= ng Foreflight in our airplanes. Ron Sent from my iPad On Sep 11, 2013, at 10:56 PM, George Wehrung wrote: > All, >=20 > thanks for the advice on the iPads. I see that I will need gen 3 or later= for brightness. >=20 >=20 > On Sep 9, 2013, at 7:37 PM, PETER WILLIAMS w= rote: >=20 >> G >>=20 >> When i first got my 4P it did not sun shades and it was quite unpleasant o= n occasion. >>=20 >> i use the cling sun shades with a lot of success >>=20 >> http://www.sportys.com/source/features/search/search.cfm?catalog=3DPilotS= hop&question=3DSUN+SHADE >>=20 >> peter >>=20 >> To: lml@lancaironline.net >> Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2013 07:54:44 -0400 >> From: gw5@me.com >> Subject: [LML] Re: iPad overheated & quit! >>=20 >> I would be interested in this too. My main problem is that our interior i= s not finished yet so I don't have sun shades or visors. The other part of m= y problem is that I am still using ForeFlight on my first generation iPad. I= have heard that the newer generation iPads have a much brighter display. >>=20 >> I would also be curious to know if anyone is using ForeFlight on the iPad= mini? =20 >>=20 >> In our situation, I like using the MX-20 (receiving data from a GNS430W) f= or real-time navigation, terrain, traffic avoidance, and airspace positionin= g. I am predisposed to using my iPad for flight planning, filing flight pla= ns (when wifi connected), enroute charts, approach plates, and taxi diagrams= (parking close to the FBO/Restaurant).=20 >>=20 >> So, I guess for me, I am looking at the mini or at least a newer version o= f the iPad as I know the processor is starting to bog down because the apps s= uch as ForeFlight are utilizing so much more data. >>=20 >> George=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> On Sep 9, 2013, at 4:13 AM, "William A. Hogarty" w= rote: >>=20 >> I'm enjoying this discussion... Learning a lot. But I haven't learned t= he trick to >> using my Ipad 1. Cant see the display in the cockpit because of sunlight= . Installed >> a glareshield on the Ipad. Still cant read the display in the daylight. >> =20 >> Obviously, I'm missing something pretty basic. Can anyone help me out? >> =20 >> Thanks, Bill Hogarty >>=20 >>=20 >> On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 8:59 PM, Paul Miller wrote: >> I lead nobody astray. But I suspect you might be optimistic about the r= eality of the label of "certified" in day to day use. It's no solution to po= tential failure. Having electronics subjected to a battery of lightning and= water tests has no bearing on whether they will or will not fail. They sti= ll fail. And they fail without being subjected to lightning and water too. = Many Garmins go back to the shop for chips, buttons, screens, knobs, memory= and other failures. You can't send one back unless you shell out more than= three iPads! How economical is that especially when you look at the cost o= f deriving that model and delivering it to the panel? >>=20 >> Almost every high-cost piece of certified equipment I've owned has failed= or required expensive factory repairs or an expensive warranty to backstop p= otential repairs. There aren't many certified manufacturers that give you a w= arranty much past the burn in period are there? Certified boxes fail and s= ometimes they aren't even in sunlight when they fail. Cheltons fail, Avidyn= es fail, Garmins fail. They all fail. You are making a silly argument sugg= esting iPad can't be used in sunlight. In the same extreme sunlight, I will= get my face, arm and lips burned. It is simply a matter of keeping temps d= own in a reasonable range and out of direct sunlight and that goes for this p= ilot too. Suggesting an iPad "predictably fails" is no different than any o= ther device that exceeds the operating specs. But suggesting they aren't for= use in the cockpit is really over the top Colyn. Probably hundreds of tho= usands are in use every day in sunlight and they continue to provide the air= lines and this pilot much more information at a small fraction of the cost o= f the "certified" devices. And, they are better. Having a second in the b= ag is an affordable and easy backup. >>=20 >> These boxes and iPads both have a place. One costs an incredible amount a= nd can't be updated easily and the other comes off the shelf, is inexpensive= to own and duplicate and=E2=80=A6is used by the airlines. Go figure. An u= ncertified iPad providing guidance in a certified jet. Who would have thoug= ht? >>=20 >> If you have stats that show Garmins or any other brand have an economical= ly better failure rate than consumer electronics like the iPad I'd like to s= ee it. I'm betting if you double up on the iPad for an extra $300-$400 your p= anel device loses in all categories of reliability and usefulness. I cou= ld be wrong. >>=20 >> Paul >>=20 >> On 2013-09-06, at 5:55 PM, Colyn Case wrote: >>=20 >> > No that is not an insane comment. >> > A Garmin fails because either you exceeded the fairly stringent environ= mental specs, or there was a chip that was in a bad corner of the tolerance m= atrix, or something else that is statistically fairly low probability. >> > An ipad fails reliably because it wasn't designed to sit in the sun. >> > >> > Having two garmins definitely lowers the probability of having both fai= l if they are in their intended environment. >> > >> > Having two ipads does nothing if they are not in their intended environ= ment. >> > >> > You are leading people astray if you are implying that the fact that ga= rmins fail sometimes makes them no better than an ipad subjected to the same= environment. >> > >> > On Sep 6, 2013, at 11:31 AM, Paul Miller wrote: >> > >> > Well that's just an insane comment. Might as well say if I disconnect t= he cooling air from two Garmins they will both overheat. So what Colyn? >> > >> > Paul >> > On 2013-09-06, at 8:49 AM, Colyn Case wrote: >> > >> >> kinda. >> >> If you put two ipads on your glare shield in the sun, likely both will= behave the same. >> > >> > >> > -- >> > For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.= html >> > >> > >> > -- >> > For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.= html >>=20 >>=20 >> -- >> For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.ht= ml >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail-87994253-A2D8-4B95-94AC-7D9324B29207 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
It's rumored that the next iPad mini i= s due soon and may have the brighter retina display. Personally, I think the= smaller size of the mini is better for our cockpits which were never design= ed with the iPad in mind. I plan to wait until a mini with a retina display i= s available. My wife will then inherit my iPad 3 (with retina).
I think the iPad mini with retina will be the best available so= lution to using Foreflight in our airplanes.

Ron
Sent from my iPad

On Sep 11, 2013, at 10:56 PM, George We= hrung <gw5@me.com> wrote:

All,

=
thanks for the advice on the iPads.  I see that I will need g= en 3 or later for brightness.


On Sep 9= , 2013, at 7:37 PM, PETER WILLIAMS <peterpawaviation@hotmail.com> wrote:

G

When= i first got my 4P it did not sun shades and it was quite unpleasant on occa= sion.

i use the cling sun shades with a lot of success

http://www.sportys.com/sour= ce/features/search/search.cfm?catalog=3DPilotShop&question=3DSUN+SHADE

peter

To: lml@l= ancaironline.net
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2013 07:54:44 -0400
From: gw= 5@me.com
Subject: [LML] Re: iPad overheated & quit!

I woul= d be interested in this too.  My main problem is that our interior is n= ot finished yet so I don't have sun shades or visors.  The other part o= f my problem is that I am still using ForeFlight on my first generation iPad= .  I have heard that the newer generation iPads have a much brighter di= splay.

I would also be curious to know if anyone is using= ForeFlight on the iPad mini?  

In our situati= on, I like using the MX-20 (receiving data from a GNS430W) for real-time nav= igation, terrain, traffic avoidance, and airspace positioning.  I am pr= edisposed to using my iPad for flight planning, filing flight plans (when wi= fi connected), enroute charts, approach plates, and taxi diagrams (parking c= lose to the FBO/Restaurant). 

So, I guess for m= e, I am looking at the mini or at least a newer version of the iPad as I kno= w the processor is starting to bog down because the apps such as ForeFlight a= re utilizing so much more data.

George 
<= div>

On Sep 9, 2013, at 4:13 AM, "William A. Hog= arty" <billhogarty@gmail.com= > wrote:

I'm enjoying this discussion...  Learning a lot. = ;  But I haven't learned the trick to
using my Ipad 1.  C= ant see the display in the cockpit because of sunlight.  Installed
a glareshield on the Ipad.  Still cant read the display in the da= ylight.
 
Obviously, I'm missing something pretty b= asic.  Can anyone help me out?
 
Thanks, Bill H= ogarty


On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 8:59 PM, Paul Miller <pjdmiller@gmail.com> wrote:
I lead nobody astray. &= nbsp; But I suspect you might be optimistic about the reality of the label o= f "certified" in day to day use. It's no solution to potential failure. &nbs= p;Having electronics subjected to a battery of lightning and water tests has= no bearing on whether they will or will not fail.  They still fail. An= d they fail without being subjected to lightning and water too.   Many G= armins go back to the shop for chips, buttons, screens, knobs, memory and ot= her failures.  You can't send one back unless you shell out more than t= hree iPads!   How economical is that especially when you look at the co= st of deriving that model and delivering it to the panel?

Almost ever= y high-cost piece of certified equipment I've owned has failed or required e= xpensive factory repairs or an expensive warranty to backstop potential repa= irs. There aren't many certified manufacturers that give you a warranty much= past the burn in period are there?   Certified boxes fail and sometime= s they aren't even in sunlight when they fail.  Cheltons fail, Avidynes= fail, Garmins fail.  They all fail.  You are making a silly argum= ent suggesting iPad can't be used in sunlight.  In the same extreme sun= light, I will get my face, arm and lips burned.  It is simply a matter o= f keeping temps down in a reasonable range and out of direct sunlight and th= at goes for this pilot too.   Suggesting an iPad "predictably fails" is= no different than any other device that exceeds the operating specs. But su= ggesting they aren't for use in the cockpit is really over the top Colyn. &n= bsp; Probably hundreds of thousands are in use every day in sunlight and the= y continue to provide the airlines and this pilot much more information at a= small fraction of the cost of the  "certified" devices.  And, the= y are better.   Having a second in the bag is an affordable and easy ba= ckup.

These boxes and iPads both have a place.  One costs an inc= redible amount and can't be updated easily and the other comes off the shelf= , is inexpensive to own and duplicate and=E2=80=A6is used by the airlines. &= nbsp;Go figure.  An uncertified iPad providing guidance in a certified j= et.  Who would have thought?

If you have stats that show Garmins= or any other brand have an economically better failure rate than consumer e= lectronics like the iPad I'd like to see it. I'm betting if you double up on= the iPad for an extra $300-$400 your panel device loses in all categories o= f reliability and usefulness.     I could be wrong.

Paul
On 2013-09-06, at 5:55 PM, Colyn Case <colyncase@earthlink.net> wrote:

> No that is n= ot an insane comment.
> A Garmin fails because either you exceeded the= fairly stringent environmental specs, or there was a chip that was in a bad= corner of the tolerance matrix, or something else that is statistically fai= rly low probability.
> An ipad fails reliably because it wasn't design= ed to sit in the sun.
>
> Having two garmins definitely lowers t= he probability of having both fail if they are in their intended environment= .
>
> Having two ipads does nothing if they are not in their int= ended environment.
>
> You are leading people astray if you are i= mplying that the fact that garmins fail sometimes makes them no better than a= n ipad subjected to the same environment.
>
> On Sep 6, 2013, at= 11:31 AM, Paul Miller wrote:
>
> Well that's just an insane com= ment.  Might as well say if I disconnect the cooling air from two Garmi= ns they will both overheat.   So what Colyn?
>
> Paul
&g= t; On 2013-09-06, at 8:49 AM, Colyn Case <colyncase@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> kinda= .
>> If you put two ipads on your glare shield in the sun, likely b= oth will behave the same.
>
>
> --
> For archives an= d unsub http://mail= .lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html
>
>
> --
= > For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html

--
For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html




= --Apple-Mail-87994253-A2D8-4B95-94AC-7D9324B29207--