X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 01:56:24 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from nk11p08mm-asmtp001.mac.com ([17.158.58.246] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.6) with ESMTP id 6461524 for lml@lancaironline.net; Tue, 10 Sep 2013 07:31:20 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=17.158.58.246; envelope-from=gw5@me.com Received: from [10.55.209.231] ([216.147.135.217]) by nk11p08mm-asmtp001.mac.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 7u4-27.07(7.0.4.27.6) 64bit (built Jun 21 2013)) with ESMTPSA id <0MSW00JEXQMSDK70@nk11p08mm-asmtp001.mac.com> for lml@lancaironline.net; Tue, 10 Sep 2013 11:30:40 +0000 (GMT) X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.10.8794,1.0.431,0.0.0000 definitions=2013-09-10_04:2013-09-10,2013-09-10,1970-01-01 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=7.0.1-1305240000 definitions=main-1309100042 From: George Wehrung Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_F1F49294-2F71-47BF-B1B6-CCABBE1B848D" X-Original-Message-id: <3111D6E3-F085-4281-85D2-1DA24DF59665@me.com> MIME-version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) Subject: Re: [LML] TOO MUCH SUN & iPad overheat X-Original-Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 16:00:28 +0430 References: X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List In-reply-to: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) --Apple-Mail=_F1F49294-2F71-47BF-B1B6-CCABBE1B848D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 All, thanks for the advice on the iPads. I see that I will need gen 3 or = later for brightness. On Sep 9, 2013, at 7:37 PM, PETER WILLIAMS = wrote: > G >=20 > When i first got my 4P it did not sun shades and it was quite = unpleasant on occasion. >=20 > i use the cling sun shades with a lot of success >=20 > = http://www.sportys.com/source/features/search/search.cfm?catalog=3DPilotSh= op&question=3DSUN+SHADE >=20 > peter >=20 > To: lml@lancaironline.net > Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2013 07:54:44 -0400 > From: gw5@me.com > Subject: [LML] Re: iPad overheated & quit! >=20 > I would be interested in this too. My main problem is that our = interior is not finished yet so I don't have sun shades or visors. The = other part of my problem is that I am still using ForeFlight on my first = generation iPad. I have heard that the newer generation iPads have a = much brighter display. >=20 > I would also be curious to know if anyone is using ForeFlight on the = iPad mini? =20 >=20 > In our situation, I like using the MX-20 (receiving data from a = GNS430W) for real-time navigation, terrain, traffic avoidance, and = airspace positioning. I am predisposed to using my iPad for flight = planning, filing flight plans (when wifi connected), enroute charts, = approach plates, and taxi diagrams (parking close to the = FBO/Restaurant).=20 >=20 > So, I guess for me, I am looking at the mini or at least a newer = version of the iPad as I know the processor is starting to bog down = because the apps such as ForeFlight are utilizing so much more data. >=20 > George=20 >=20 >=20 > On Sep 9, 2013, at 4:13 AM, "William A. Hogarty" = wrote: >=20 > I'm enjoying this discussion... Learning a lot. But I haven't = learned the trick to > using my Ipad 1. Cant see the display in the cockpit because of = sunlight. Installed > a glareshield on the Ipad. Still cant read the display in the = daylight. > =20 > Obviously, I'm missing something pretty basic. Can anyone help me = out? > =20 > Thanks, Bill Hogarty >=20 >=20 > On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 8:59 PM, Paul Miller = wrote: > I lead nobody astray. But I suspect you might be optimistic about = the reality of the label of "certified" in day to day use. It's no = solution to potential failure. Having electronics subjected to a = battery of lightning and water tests has no bearing on whether they will = or will not fail. They still fail. And they fail without being = subjected to lightning and water too. Many Garmins go back to the shop = for chips, buttons, screens, knobs, memory and other failures. You = can't send one back unless you shell out more than three iPads! How = economical is that especially when you look at the cost of deriving that = model and delivering it to the panel? >=20 > Almost every high-cost piece of certified equipment I've owned has = failed or required expensive factory repairs or an expensive warranty to = backstop potential repairs. There aren't many certified manufacturers = that give you a warranty much past the burn in period are there? = Certified boxes fail and sometimes they aren't even in sunlight when = they fail. Cheltons fail, Avidynes fail, Garmins fail. They all fail. = You are making a silly argument suggesting iPad can't be used in = sunlight. In the same extreme sunlight, I will get my face, arm and = lips burned. It is simply a matter of keeping temps down in a = reasonable range and out of direct sunlight and that goes for this pilot = too. Suggesting an iPad "predictably fails" is no different than any = other device that exceeds the operating specs. But suggesting they = aren't for use in the cockpit is really over the top Colyn. Probably = hundreds of thousands are in use every day in sunlight and they continue = to provide the airlines and this pilot much more information at a small = fraction of the cost of the "certified" devices. And, they are better. = Having a second in the bag is an affordable and easy backup. >=20 > These boxes and iPads both have a place. One costs an incredible = amount and can't be updated easily and the other comes off the shelf, is = inexpensive to own and duplicate and=85is used by the airlines. Go = figure. An uncertified iPad providing guidance in a certified jet. Who = would have thought? >=20 > If you have stats that show Garmins or any other brand have an = economically better failure rate than consumer electronics like the iPad = I'd like to see it. I'm betting if you double up on the iPad for an = extra $300-$400 your panel device loses in all categories of reliability = and usefulness. I could be wrong. >=20 > Paul >=20 > On 2013-09-06, at 5:55 PM, Colyn Case wrote: >=20 > > No that is not an insane comment. > > A Garmin fails because either you exceeded the fairly stringent = environmental specs, or there was a chip that was in a bad corner of the = tolerance matrix, or something else that is statistically fairly low = probability. > > An ipad fails reliably because it wasn't designed to sit in the sun. > > > > Having two garmins definitely lowers the probability of having both = fail if they are in their intended environment. > > > > Having two ipads does nothing if they are not in their intended = environment. > > > > You are leading people astray if you are implying that the fact that = garmins fail sometimes makes them no better than an ipad subjected to = the same environment. > > > > On Sep 6, 2013, at 11:31 AM, Paul Miller wrote: > > > > Well that's just an insane comment. Might as well say if I = disconnect the cooling air from two Garmins they will both overheat. = So what Colyn? > > > > Paul > > On 2013-09-06, at 8:49 AM, Colyn Case = wrote: > > > >> kinda. > >> If you put two ipads on your glare shield in the sun, likely both = will behave the same. > > > > > > -- > > For archives and unsub = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html > > > > > > -- > > For archives and unsub = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html >=20 >=20 > -- > For archives and unsub = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html >=20 >=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail=_F1F49294-2F71-47BF-B1B6-CCABBE1B848D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 All,

thanks = for the advice on the iPads.  I see that I will need gen 3 or later = for brightness.


On Sep 9, 2013, = at 7:37 PM, PETER WILLIAMS <peterpawaviation@hotmail.com<= /a>> wrote:

G

When i first got my 4P it did not sun shades and it = was quite unpleasant on occasion.

i use the cling sun shades with = a lot of success

http://www.sportys.com/source/features/search/search.cfm= ?catalog=3DPilotShop&question=3DSUN+SHADE

peter

To: lml@lancaironline.net
Date: = Mon, 9 Sep 2013 07:54:44 -0400
From: gw5@me.com
Subject: [LML] Re: iPad = overheated & quit!

I would be interested in this too. =  My main problem is that our interior is not finished yet so I = don't have sun shades or visors.  The other part of my problem is = that I am still using ForeFlight on my first generation iPad.  I = have heard that the newer generation iPads have a much brighter = display.

I would also be curious to know if anyone is = using ForeFlight on the iPad mini?  

In = our situation, I like using the MX-20 (receiving data from a GNS430W) = for real-time navigation, terrain, traffic avoidance, and airspace = positioning.  I am predisposed to using my iPad for flight = planning, filing flight plans (when wifi connected), enroute charts, = approach plates, and taxi diagrams (parking close to the = FBO/Restaurant). 

So, I guess for me, I am = looking at the mini or at least a newer version of the iPad as I know = the processor is starting to bog down because the apps such as = ForeFlight are utilizing so much more = data.

George 


<= div>
On Sep 9, 2013, at 4:13 AM, "William A. Hogarty" <billhogarty@gmail.com> = wrote:

I'm enjoying this discussion...  Learning a = lot.   But I haven't learned the trick to
using my = Ipad 1.  Cant see the display in the cockpit because of = sunlight.  Installed
a glareshield on the Ipad.  = Still cant read the display in the = daylight.
 
Obviously, I'm missing something = pretty basic.  Can anyone help me = out?
 
Thanks, Bill Hogarty


On Fri, = Sep 6, 2013 at 8:59 PM, Paul Miller <pjdmiller@gmail.com> wrote:
I lead nobody astray.   But I suspect you = might be optimistic about the reality of the label of "certified" in day = to day use. It's no solution to potential failure.  Having = electronics subjected to a battery of lightning and water tests has no = bearing on whether they will or will not fail.  They still fail. = And they fail without being subjected to lightning and water too.   = Many Garmins go back to the shop for chips, buttons, screens, knobs, = memory and other failures.  You can't send one back unless you = shell out more than three iPads!   How economical is that = especially when you look at the cost of deriving that model and = delivering it to the panel?

Almost every high-cost piece of = certified equipment I've owned has failed or required expensive factory = repairs or an expensive warranty to backstop potential repairs. There = aren't many certified manufacturers that give you a warranty much past = the burn in period are there?   Certified boxes fail and sometimes = they aren't even in sunlight when they fail.  Cheltons fail, = Avidynes fail, Garmins fail.  They all fail.  You are making a = silly argument suggesting iPad can't be used in sunlight.  In the = same extreme sunlight, I will get my face, arm and lips burned.  It = is simply a matter of keeping temps down in a reasonable range and out = of direct sunlight and that goes for this pilot too.   Suggesting = an iPad "predictably fails" is no different than any other device that = exceeds the operating specs. But suggesting they aren't for use in the = cockpit is really over the top Colyn.   Probably hundreds of = thousands are in use every day in sunlight and they continue to provide = the airlines and this pilot much more information at a small fraction of = the cost of the  "certified" devices.  And, they are better. =   Having a second in the bag is an affordable and easy = backup.

These boxes and iPads both have a place.  One costs = an incredible amount and can't be updated easily and the other comes off = the shelf, is inexpensive to own and duplicate and=85is used by the = airlines.  Go figure.  An uncertified iPad providing guidance = in a certified jet.  Who would have thought?

If you have = stats that show Garmins or any other brand have an economically better = failure rate than consumer electronics like the iPad I'd like to see it. = I'm betting if you double up on the iPad for an extra $300-$400 your = panel device loses in all categories of reliability and usefulness. =     I could be wrong.

Paul

On 2013-09-06, at = 5:55 PM, Colyn Case <colyncase@earthlink.net> = wrote:

> No that is not an insane comment.
> A Garmin = fails because either you exceeded the fairly stringent environmental = specs, or there was a chip that was in a bad corner of the tolerance = matrix, or something else that is statistically fairly low = probability.
> An ipad fails reliably because it wasn't designed = to sit in the sun.
>
> Having two garmins definitely lowers = the probability of having both fail if they are in their intended = environment.
>
> Having two ipads does nothing if they are = not in their intended environment.
>
> You are leading = people astray if you are implying that the fact that garmins fail = sometimes makes them no better than an ipad subjected to the same = environment.
>
> On Sep 6, 2013, at 11:31 AM, Paul Miller = wrote:
>
> Well that's just an insane comment.  Might = as well say if I disconnect the cooling air from two Garmins they will = both overheat.   So what Colyn?
>
> Paul
> On = 2013-09-06, at 8:49 AM, Colyn Case <colyncase@earthlink.net> = wrote:
>
>> kinda.
>> If you put two ipads on = your glare shield in the sun, likely both will behave the = same.
>
>
> --
> For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html=
>
>
> --
> For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html=


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