X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([209.86.89.67] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.6) with ESMTP id 6460626 for lml@lancaironline.net; Mon, 09 Sep 2013 13:40:34 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.86.89.67; envelope-from=colyncase@earthlink.net DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=GA+DvQXkcrRc67yKYjw61OrHLuXq0z2MBwYIYNe5B5qhFoQILKsCpFgg3rhPKFJX; h=Received:From:Mime-Version:Content-Type:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:To:References:Message-Id:X-Mailer:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [72.92.128.226] (helo=[192.168.1.24]) by elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1VJ5RP-0004dh-2W for lml@lancaironline.net; Mon, 09 Sep 2013 13:39:59 -0400 From: Colyn Case Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1085) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-204-1009240157 Subject: Re: [LML] Re: iPad overheated & quit! Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2013 13:39:58 -0400 In-Reply-To: To: "Lancair Mailing List" References: Message-Id: <1CF6796B-A27C-4482-BE28-2B6B262CC72D@earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1085) X-ELNK-Trace: 63d5d3452847f8b1d6dd28457998182d7e972de0d01da94066c281178cfae5b0e7f2b14d5bae077a350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 72.92.128.226 --Apple-Mail-204-1009240157 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 George, I have foreflight on the mini. works great but the internal = gps seems a little weaker. Recommend using with an external gps. shameless plug - I also know where there's a good deal on a gmx200 if = you are ready to upgrade your mx20. send me a p-email. Colyn On Sep 9, 2013, at 7:54 AM, George Wehrung wrote: I would be interested in this too. My main problem is that our interior = is not finished yet so I don't have sun shades or visors. The other = part of my problem is that I am still using ForeFlight on my first = generation iPad. I have heard that the newer generation iPads have a = much brighter display. I would also be curious to know if anyone is using ForeFlight on the = iPad mini? =20 In our situation, I like using the MX-20 (receiving data from a GNS430W) = for real-time navigation, terrain, traffic avoidance, and airspace = positioning. I am predisposed to using my iPad for flight planning, = filing flight plans (when wifi connected), enroute charts, approach = plates, and taxi diagrams (parking close to the FBO/Restaurant).=20 So, I guess for me, I am looking at the mini or at least a newer version = of the iPad as I know the processor is starting to bog down because the = apps such as ForeFlight are utilizing so much more data. George=20 On Sep 9, 2013, at 4:13 AM, "William A. Hogarty" = wrote: > I'm enjoying this discussion... Learning a lot. But I haven't = learned the trick to > using my Ipad 1. Cant see the display in the cockpit because of = sunlight. Installed > a glareshield on the Ipad. Still cant read the display in the = daylight. > =20 > Obviously, I'm missing something pretty basic. Can anyone help me = out? > =20 > Thanks, Bill Hogarty >=20 >=20 > On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 8:59 PM, Paul Miller = wrote: > I lead nobody astray. But I suspect you might be optimistic about = the reality of the label of "certified" in day to day use. It's no = solution to potential failure. Having electronics subjected to a = battery of lightning and water tests has no bearing on whether they will = or will not fail. They still fail. And they fail without being = subjected to lightning and water too. Many Garmins go back to the shop = for chips, buttons, screens, knobs, memory and other failures. You = can't send one back unless you shell out more than three iPads! How = economical is that especially when you look at the cost of deriving that = model and delivering it to the panel? >=20 > Almost every high-cost piece of certified equipment I've owned has = failed or required expensive factory repairs or an expensive warranty to = backstop potential repairs. There aren't many certified manufacturers = that give you a warranty much past the burn in period are there? = Certified boxes fail and sometimes they aren't even in sunlight when = they fail. Cheltons fail, Avidynes fail, Garmins fail. They all fail. = You are making a silly argument suggesting iPad can't be used in = sunlight. In the same extreme sunlight, I will get my face, arm and = lips burned. It is simply a matter of keeping temps down in a = reasonable range and out of direct sunlight and that goes for this pilot = too. Suggesting an iPad "predictably fails" is no different than any = other device that exceeds the operating specs. But suggesting they = aren't for use in the cockpit is really over the top Colyn. Probably = hundreds of thousands are in use every day in sunlight and they continue = to provide the airlines and this pilot much more information at a small = fraction of the cost of the "certified" devices. And, they are better. = Having a second in the bag is an affordable and easy backup. >=20 > These boxes and iPads both have a place. One costs an incredible = amount and can't be updated easily and the other comes off the shelf, is = inexpensive to own and duplicate and=85is used by the airlines. Go = figure. An uncertified iPad providing guidance in a certified jet. Who = would have thought? >=20 > If you have stats that show Garmins or any other brand have an = economically better failure rate than consumer electronics like the iPad = I'd like to see it. I'm betting if you double up on the iPad for an = extra $300-$400 your panel device loses in all categories of reliability = and usefulness. I could be wrong. >=20 > Paul >=20 > On 2013-09-06, at 5:55 PM, Colyn Case wrote: >=20 > > No that is not an insane comment. > > A Garmin fails because either you exceeded the fairly stringent = environmental specs, or there was a chip that was in a bad corner of the = tolerance matrix, or something else that is statistically fairly low = probability. > > An ipad fails reliably because it wasn't designed to sit in the sun. > > > > Having two garmins definitely lowers the probability of having both = fail if they are in their intended environment. > > > > Having two ipads does nothing if they are not in their intended = environment. > > > > You are leading people astray if you are implying that the fact that = garmins fail sometimes makes them no better than an ipad subjected to = the same environment. > > > > On Sep 6, 2013, at 11:31 AM, Paul Miller wrote: > > > > Well that's just an insane comment. Might as well say if I = disconnect the cooling air from two Garmins they will both overheat. = So what Colyn? > > > > Paul > > On 2013-09-06, at 8:49 AM, Colyn Case = wrote: > > > >> kinda. > >> If you put two ipads on your glare shield in the sun, likely both = will behave the same. > > > > > > -- > > For archives and unsub = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html > > > > > > -- > > For archives and unsub = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html >=20 >=20 > -- > For archives and unsub = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html >=20 --Apple-Mail-204-1009240157 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252
I would be interested in this too.  My main = problem is that our interior is not finished yet so I don't have sun = shades or visors.  The other part of my problem is that I am still = using ForeFlight on my first generation iPad.  I have heard that = the newer generation iPads have a much brighter = display.

I would also be curious to know if anyone is = using ForeFlight on the iPad mini?  

In = our situation, I like using the MX-20 (receiving data from a GNS430W) = for real-time navigation, terrain, traffic avoidance, and airspace = positioning.  I am predisposed to using my iPad for flight = planning, filing flight plans (when wifi connected), enroute charts, = approach plates, and taxi diagrams (parking close to the = FBO/Restaurant). 

So, I guess for me, I am = looking at the mini or at least a newer version of the iPad as I know = the processor is starting to bog down because the apps such as = ForeFlight are utilizing so much more = data.

George 


<= div>
On Sep 9, 2013, at 4:13 AM, "William A. Hogarty" <billhogarty@gmail.com> = wrote:

I'm enjoying this = discussion...  Learning a lot.   But I haven't learned = the trick to
using my Ipad 1.  Cant see the display in = the cockpit because of sunlight.  Installed
a glareshield = on the Ipad.  Still cant read the display in the daylight.
 
Obviously, I'm missing something pretty = basic.  Can anyone help me out?
 
Thanks, = Bill Hogarty


On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 8:59 PM, Paul Miller <pjdmiller@gmail.com> wrote:
I lead nobody astray. =   But I suspect you might be optimistic about the reality of the = label of "certified" in day to day use. It's no solution to potential = failure.  Having electronics subjected to a battery of lightning = and water tests has no bearing on whether they will or will not fail. =  They still fail. And they fail without being subjected to = lightning and water too.   Many Garmins go back to the shop for = chips, buttons, screens, knobs, memory and other failures.  You = can't send one back unless you shell out more than three iPads!   = How economical is that especially when you look at the cost of deriving = that model and delivering it to the panel?

Almost every high-cost piece of certified equipment I've owned has = failed or required expensive factory repairs or an expensive warranty to = backstop potential repairs. There aren't many certified manufacturers = that give you a warranty much past the burn in period are there?   = Certified boxes fail and sometimes they aren't even in sunlight when = they fail.  Cheltons fail, Avidynes fail, Garmins fail.  They = all fail.  You are making a silly argument suggesting iPad can't be = used in sunlight.  In the same extreme sunlight, I will get my = face, arm and lips burned.  It is simply a matter of keeping temps = down in a reasonable range and out of direct sunlight and that goes for = this pilot too.   Suggesting an iPad "predictably fails" is no = different than any other device that exceeds the operating specs. But = suggesting they aren't for use in the cockpit is really over the top = Colyn.   Probably hundreds of thousands are in use every day in = sunlight and they continue to provide the airlines and this pilot much = more information at a small fraction of the cost of the =  "certified" devices.  And, they are better.   Having a = second in the bag is an affordable and easy backup.

These boxes and iPads both have a place.  One costs an incredible = amount and can't be updated easily and the other comes off the shelf, is = inexpensive to own and duplicate and=85is used by the airlines.  Go = figure.  An uncertified iPad providing guidance in a certified jet. =  Who would have thought?

If you have stats that show Garmins or any other brand have an = economically better failure rate than consumer electronics like the iPad = I'd like to see it. I'm betting if you double up on the iPad for an = extra $300-$400 your panel device loses in all categories of reliability = and usefulness.     I could be wrong.

Paul

On 2013-09-06, at 5:55 PM, Colyn Case <colyncase@earthlink.net> = wrote:

> No that is not an insane comment.
> A Garmin fails because either you exceeded the fairly stringent = environmental specs, or there was a chip that was in a bad corner of the = tolerance matrix, or something else that is statistically fairly low = probability.
> An ipad fails reliably because it wasn't designed to sit in the = sun.
>
> Having two garmins definitely lowers the probability of having both = fail if they are in their intended environment.
>
> Having two ipads does nothing if they are not in their intended = environment.
>
> You are leading people astray if you are implying that the fact = that garmins fail sometimes makes them no better than an ipad subjected = to the same environment.
>
> On Sep 6, 2013, at 11:31 AM, Paul Miller wrote:
>
> Well that's just an insane comment.  Might as well say if I = disconnect the cooling air from two Garmins they will both overheat. =   So what Colyn?
>
> Paul
> On 2013-09-06, at 8:49 AM, Colyn Case <colyncase@earthlink.net> = wrote:
>
>> kinda.
>> If you put two ipads on your glare shield in the sun, likely = both will behave the same.
>
>
> --
> For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html=
>
>
> --
> For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html=


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