X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2012 21:34:33 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from mail-da0-f51.google.com ([209.85.210.51] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0) with ESMTPS id 5971357 for lml@lancaironline.net; Thu, 27 Dec 2012 19:32:11 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.210.51; envelope-from=billhogarty@gmail.com Received: by mail-da0-f51.google.com with SMTP id i30so4530508dad.24 for ; Thu, 27 Dec 2012 16:31:35 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.68.233.197 with SMTP id ty5mr101065862pbc.9.1356654695092; Thu, 27 Dec 2012 16:31:35 -0800 (PST) X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from [192.168.5.147] (ip-64-134-237-118.public.wayport.net. [64.134.237.118]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id na4sm18615945pbc.18.2012.12.27.16.31.32 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 27 Dec 2012 16:31:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Seat Belt update Legacy References: From: Bill Hogarty Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-36DE5750-F1DF-4448-8D43-A8B8E6F61D1C X-Mailer: iPad Mail (9B206) In-Reply-To: X-Original-Message-Id: <7CF1B1F1-65EE-4E4D-9513-D6E4FF85FCDC@gmail.com> X-Original-Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2012 16:31:30 -0800 X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) --Apple-Mail-36DE5750-F1DF-4448-8D43-A8B8E6F61D1C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Colyn In my 4 I added the inertia reels primarily to be able to switch fuel tanks without r= emoving the shoulder harness. I kept the original seatbelts to avoid hitting the cabin top in rough WX. Works for me. Bill H On Dec 27, 2012, at 3:26 PM, Colyn Case wrote: > Have any IV owners eliminated the inertia reels in the front seats? >=20 > On Dec 27, 2012, at 9:54 AM, Stan Fields wrote: >=20 > Hello Paul, > =20 > I would like to know more about how you mounted the shoulder straps. I am p= lanning to do the same and don't need to re-invent what you've already done.= > =20 > Stan Fields > L2KR/G # 201 > Austin > =20 > From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Pau= l Miller > Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2012 8:58 PM > To: lml@lancaironline.net > Subject: [LML] Seat Belt update Legacy > =20 > I made a safety and comfort upgrade with my Legacy recently and installed 6= -point Simpson belts. Here are the details and a few things to consider bas= ed on input from safety expert Butch Stevens of Simpson who supplied the new= belts: > =20 > 1) I removed the inertial reels based on Butch's recommendation because re= els are not reliable in high-G impacts. I also shortened the shoulder stra= ps and bolted them behind the seats. Belts stretch 15% in an accident so i= f you want maximum protection from panel impact, remove the long straps from= the roof and shorten them as much as possible. > =20 > 2) These Simpson belts and hardware are rated to 14,000 pounds. Testing s= hows that most 3,000 lb rated belts don't make that figure. Butch's Citabr= ia belts only tested to 1800lb before failure. Original hardware on our TB= M 700s failed at 600lb before we complained and an AD came out on the French= hardware. Butch's tests on Hooker failed at less than 3,000lb. > =20 > 3) Belts lose 50% of their strength in two years from sunlight exposure. > =20 > 4) High G pullups and crashes without the 6-points (crotch straps) often f= ind the pilot squeezed down near the rudder pedals because they slide undern= eath the lap belts. You must have the 6 points to avoid this problem. > =20 > I installed the crotch straps to the same mounting point with the lap belt= s. I don't believe the mounting location of the lap belt on the center cons= ole will hold 3,000 lbs from what I saw on the Legacy so I will have to revi= ew that at a later date. I believe the hard point on the seat back and the f= uselage will probably hold. I was thinking maybe of bonding an attach point t= o the rear spar but I have no data yet on how that might work for the crotch= straps. > =20 > The incremental cost was low for me. I sold the old hardware, TSO'd belts= and reels on ebay for $250 to a Alaska pilot. This setup from Simpson is a= vailable for $299 which is inexpensive for the high quality and ability to h= andle higher loads and shocks. > =20 > =46rom a comfort perspective, many of my flights are cross country and the= inertial reels always had me bouncing around the cockpit going through Mont= ana in the afternoon or in Texas during the summer. With these hard points,= I cinch down and become one with the airplane. Control is better in turbul= ence and I feel liked I'm locked in a little tighter. The setup is comforta= ble during long flights. > =20 > Contact me if you'd like more info on how I attached these shoulder straps= or if you have data on mounting the other points. > =20 > Paul > Spruce Creek > =20 > >=20 --Apple-Mail-36DE5750-F1DF-4448-8D43-A8B8E6F61D1C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Colyn

=
In my 4
I added the inertia reels primarily to be able to swi= tch fuel tanks without removing the shoulder harness.

I kept the original seatbelts to avoid hitting the cabin top in rough WX.=

  Works for me.

Bill H




On Dec 27, 2012, at 3:26 PM= , Colyn Case <colyncase@earthl= ink.net> wrote:

Have any IV owners eliminated the inertia ree= ls in the front seats?

On Dec 27, 2012, at 9:54 AM, Stan Fi= elds wrote:

 
I would like to know more about how you mounted the s= houlder straps. I am planning to do the same and don't need to re-invent wha= t you've already done.
 
Stan Fields
L2KR/G # 201
Austin=
From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancai= ronline.net] On Behalf O= f Paul Miller
Se= nt: Wednesday, Decembe= r 26, 2012 8:58 PM
To: = lml@lancaironline.netSubject: [LML] Sea= t Belt update Legacy
 
I made a safety and comfort upgrade with my Legacy recently and installed 6= -point Simpson belts.  Here are the details and a few things to conside= r based on input from safety expert Butch Stevens of Simpson who supplied th= e new belts:
 
1) I remov= ed the inertial reels based on Butch's recommendation because reels are not r= eliable in high-G impacts.   I also shortened the shoulder straps and b= olted them behind the seats.   Belts stretch 15% in an accident so if y= ou want maximum protection from panel impact, remove the long straps from th= e roof and shorten them as much as possible.
=  
2) These Simpson belts and hardware are rated to 1= 4,000 pounds.   Testing shows that most 3,000 lb rated belts don't make= that figure.   Butch's Citabria belts only tested to 1800lb before fai= lure.   Original hardware on our TBM 700s failed at 600lb before we com= plained and an AD came out on the French hardware.  Butch's tests on Ho= oker failed at less than 3,000lb.
 
3) Belts lose 50% of their strength in two years from sunlig= ht exposure.
 
4) H= igh G pullups and crashes without the 6-points (crotch straps) often find th= e pilot squeezed down near the rudder pedals because they slide underneath t= he lap belts.  You must have the 6 points to avoid this problem.
 
I installed the crotch s= traps to the same mounting point with the lap belts.  I don't believe t= he mounting location of the lap belt on the center console will hold 3,000 l= bs from what I saw on the Legacy so I will have to review that at a later da= te.  I believe the hard point on the seat back and the fuselage will pr= obably hold. I was thinking maybe of bonding an attach point to the rear spa= r but I have no data yet on how that might work for the crotch straps.<= /o:p>
 
The incremental cost wa= s low for me.  I sold the old hardware, TSO'd belts and reels on ebay f= or $250 to a Alaska pilot.  This setup from Simpson is available for $2= 99 which is inexpensive for the high quality and ability to handle higher lo= ads and shocks.
 
=
=46rom= a comfort perspective, many of my flights are cross country and the inertia= l reels always had me bouncing around the cockpit going through Montana in t= he afternoon or in Texas during the summer.  With these hard points, I c= inch down and become one with the airplane.  Control is better in turbu= lence and I feel liked I'm locked in a little tighter.  The setup is co= mfortable during long flights.
 
Contact me if you'd like more info on how I attached these sho= ulder straps or if you have data on mounting the other points.
 
Paul
Spruce Creek
 
<= ;image001.jpg>

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