X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2012 18:26:07 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from imr-ma04.mx.aol.com ([64.12.206.42] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0) with ESMTP id 5970912 for lml@lancaironline.net; Thu, 27 Dec 2012 13:50:30 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.206.42; envelope-from=Sky2high@aol.com Received: from mtaomg-mb03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-mb03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.41.74]) by imr-ma04.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id C49D41C00019E for ; Thu, 27 Dec 2012 13:49:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from core-mta001b.r1000.mail.aol.com (core-mta001.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.29.234.129]) by mtaomg-mb03.r1000.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id 8A47EE000082 for ; Thu, 27 Dec 2012 13:49:54 -0500 (EST) From: Sky2high@aol.com Full-name: Sky2high X-Original-Message-ID: X-Original-Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2012 13:49:54 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Seat Belt update Legacy X-Original-To: lml@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_e19d.6e7f9f0c.3e0df252_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 9.6 sub 168 X-Originating-IP: [67.175.156.123] x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:480713408:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d294a50dc98527e01 --part1_e19d.6e7f9f0c.3e0df252_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gents, The shoulder strap ends should not be mounted lower than one's shoulders as this could cause a compression of the spine in an accident. Grayhawk In a message dated 12/27/2012 8:54:41 A.M. Central Standard Time, sdfields68@att.net writes: Hello Paul, I would like to know more about how you mounted the shoulder straps. I am planning to do the same and don't need to re-invent what you've already done. Stan Fields L2KR/G # 201 Austin From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Paul Miller Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2012 8:58 PM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] Seat Belt update Legacy I made a safety and comfort upgrade with my Legacy recently and installed 6-point Simpson belts. Here are the details and a few things to consider based on input from safety expert Butch Stevens of Simpson who supplied the new belts: 1) I removed the inertial reels based on Butch's recommendation because reels are not reliable in high-G impacts. I also shortened the shoulder straps and bolted them behind the seats. Belts stretch 15% in an accident so if you want maximum protection from panel impact, remove the long straps from the roof and shorten them as much as possible. 2) These Simpson belts and hardware are rated to 14,000 pounds. Testing shows that most 3,000 lb rated belts don't make that figure. Butch's Citabria belts only tested to 1800lb before failure. Original hardware on our TBM 700s failed at 600lb before we complained and an AD came out on the French hardware. Butch's tests on Hooker failed at less than 3,000lb. 3) Belts lose 50% of their strength in two years from sunlight exposure. 4) High G pullups and crashes without the 6-points (crotch straps) often find the pilot squeezed down near the rudder pedals because they slide underneath the lap belts. You must have the 6 points to avoid this problem. I installed the crotch straps to the same mounting point with the lap belts. I don't believe the mounting location of the lap belt on the center console will hold 3,000 lbs from what I saw on the Legacy so I will have to review that at a later date. I believe the hard point on the seat back and the fuselage will probably hold. I was thinking maybe of bonding an attach point to the rear spar but I have no data yet on how that might work for the crotch straps. The incremental cost was low for me. I sold the old hardware, TSO'd belts and reels on ebay for $250 to a Alaska pilot. This setup from Simpson is available for $299 which is inexpensive for the high quality and ability to handle higher loads and shocks. From a comfort perspective, many of my flights are cross country and the inertial reels always had me bouncing around the cockpit going through Montana in the afternoon or in Texas during the summer. With these hard points, I cinch down and become one with the airplane. Control is better in turbulence and I feel liked I'm locked in a little tighter. The setup is comfortable during long flights. Contact me if you'd like more info on how I attached these shoulder straps or if you have data on mounting the other points. Paul Spruce Creek --part1_e19d.6e7f9f0c.3e0df252_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Gents,
 
The shoulder strap ends should not be mounted lower than one's=20 shoulders as this could cause a compression of the spine in an accident.
 
Grayhawk
 
In a message dated 12/27/2012 8:54:41 A.M. Central Standard Time,=20 sdfields68@att.net writes:
=

Hello=20 Paul,

 

I=20 would like to know more about how you mounted the shoulder straps. I am= =20 planning to do the same and don't need to re-invent what you've already= =20 done.

 

Stan=20 Fields

L2KR/G=20 # 201

Austin

 

From: Lancair Ma= iling=20 List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Paul=20 Miller
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2012 8:58 PM
To:= =20 lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Seat Belt update=20 Legacy

 

I made a safety and comfort upgrade with my Legacy r= ecently=20 and installed 6-point Simpson belts.  Here are the details and a few= =20 things to consider based on input from safety expert Butch Stevens of Sim= pson=20 who supplied the new belts:

 

1) I removed the inertial reels based on Butch's=20 recommendation because reels are not reliable in high-G impacts.   I= also=20 shortened the shoulder straps and bolted them behind the seats.   Be= lts=20 stretch 15% in an accident so if you want maximum protection from panel= =20 impact, remove the long straps from the roof and shorten them as much as= =20 possible.

 

2) These Simpson belts and hardware are rated to 14,= 000=20 pounds.   Testing shows that most 3,000 lb rated belts don't make th= at=20 figure.   Butch's Citabria belts only tested to 1800lb before failur= e.=20   Original hardware on our TBM 700s failed at 600lb before we compla= ined=20 and an AD came out on the French hardware.  Butch's tests on Hooker= =20 failed at less than 3,000lb.

 

3) Belts lose 50% of their strength in two years fro= m=20 sunlight exposure.

 

4) High G pullups and crashes without the 6-points (= crotch=20 straps) often find the pilot squeezed down near the rudder pedals because= they=20 slide underneath the lap belts.  You must have the 6 points to avoid= this=20 problem.

 

I installed the crotch straps to the same mounting p= oint=20 with the lap belts.  I don't believe the mounting location of the la= p=20 belt on the center console will hold 3,000 lbs from what I saw on the Leg= acy=20 so I will have to review that at a later date.  I believe the hard p= oint=20 on the seat back and the fuselage will probably hold. I was thinking mayb= e of=20 bonding an attach point to the rear spar but I have no data yet on how th= at=20 might work for the crotch straps.

 

The incremental cost was low for me.  I sold th= e old=20 hardware, TSO'd belts and reels on ebay for $250 to a Alaska pilot.  = ;This=20 setup from Simpson is available for $299 which is inexpensive for the hig= h=20 quality and ability to handle higher loads and shocks.

 

From a comfort perspective, many of my flights are c= ross=20 country and the inertial reels always had me bouncing around the cockpit = going=20 through Montana in the afternoon or in Texas during the summer.  Wit= h=20 these hard points, I cinch down and become one with the airplane.=20  Control is better in turbulence and I feel liked I'm locked in a li= ttle=20 tighter.  The setup is comfortable during long=20 flights.

 

Contact me if you'd like more info on how I attached= these=20 shoulder straps or if you have data on mounting the other=20 points.

 

Paul

Spruce Creek

 

 

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