X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 15:27:28 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from imr-ma02.mx.aol.com ([64.12.206.40] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.5) with ESMTP id 5553672 for lml@lancaironline.net; Tue, 22 May 2012 12:11:54 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.206.40; envelope-from=n5276j@aol.com Received: from mtaomg-db05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-db05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.51.203]) by imr-ma02.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id q4MGB1Kq001308 for ; Tue, 22 May 2012 12:11:01 -0400 Received: from core-mla001c.r1000.mail.aol.com (core-mla001.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.29.186.79]) by mtaomg-db05.r1000.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id 52956E000082 for ; Tue, 22 May 2012 12:11:00 -0400 (EDT) References: X-Original-To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [LML] 360 still surging In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: steve X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CF064C9CD145BF_26B0_FB9FC_webmail-m140.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 36081-STANDARD Received: from 166.250.166.15 by webmail-m140.sysops.aol.com (149.174.9.11) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Tue, 22 May 2012 12:11:00 -0400 X-Original-Message-Id: <8CF064C9CC2FD79-26B0-411E3@webmail-m140.sysops.aol.com> X-Originating-IP: [166.250.166.15] X-Original-Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 12:11:00 -0400 (EDT) x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:367489280:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d33cb4fbbba942a77 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ----------MB_8CF064C9CD145BF_26B0_FB9FC_webmail-m140.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Berni it would help to see some pics of your fuel system install. The Lancair 36= 0 is a tightly cowl and heat is most likely causing the problem. I am guess= ing you have a firewall mounted gasolator and boost pump and when you are h= ot the fuel is being preheated thus messing up the fuel servo. Fuel servo'= s do not like air in the fuel line. Randy Snarr hit on the head recommendin= g Don of Airflow performance. You really should be contacting him as he is = the fuel injection expert. Take some pics of what you have and send them to= him.=20 My system has only the fuel line going to the mechanical fuel pump- servo -= spider- cylinders all insulated forward the firewall and have none of you= r problems nor is it hard to start when hot. I have no gasolator only airfl= ow performance filter with a drain mounted on the belly floor under the sea= t and my boost pump in the nose gear well. Not saying you need to change to= this design just showing that you take away(relocate) as many of the prehe= ated sources as possiable and the system works much better.=20 steve alderman 360=20 -----Original Message----- From: Berni Breen To: lml Sent: Mon, May 21, 2012 2:31 pm Subject: [LML] 360 still surging Many of you guys have offered suggestions to help me remedy my ongoing engi= ne surge challenge. As a reminder...my fuel injected IO360 displays a very= pronounced surge during idle and taxi following a flight and brief shutdow= n/restart. The problem never occurs when the engine iis cool. =20 I have tried suggestions such as ground running the engine at 1700 rpm for = extended periods following a restart in an attempt to get some air moving t= hrough the cowl but that has resulted in limited success. So far my only r= emedy is to let the engine sit for a long enough period to let it cool sign= ificantly. If I do, I have zero issues with surging. I even removed my fuel injector servo and sent it off for overhaul (not an = inexpensive undertaking) as another attempt to remedy my problem. That ide= a does not address what I firmly believe to be the problem, heat causing fu= el vapor lock, but I tried it anyway. I reinstalled the servo yesterday an= d test flew. The plane performed flawlessly as it always does following a = first start. When I returned home and let it sit for 20 minutes, restarted= and went to taxi, the surge was just as pronounced as ever. All of my fuel lines are insulated and fire sleeved. The only exposed line= s are the small lines that run up to the spider on the top of the engine. I= do not have any fuel leaks. Turning on my electric fuel pump, while incre= asing fuel pressure from 20 to 25 psi, does not remedy the surge issue. As posted here before I have taken the active and lifted off several times = with this surge issue going on as the surge quits once I apply full throttl= e. As several of you have pointed out this is not a safe way to proceed th= erefore I am again asking for ideas/suggestions from you guys. Many years ago in my drag racing days me and several of my friends would in= stall a cooling can to cool down the fuel and therefore (we believed) helpe= d us produce more power. We would use a coffee can, insert a coil of coppe= r fuel line in the can, put this contraption in line (fuel line) fill it an= d fill it with ice prior to a run. While this is not a practical long term= solution, is this the kind of thing I should be doing to prove/disprove my= belief that I have a vapor lock issue? I sincerely appreciate any and all suggestions! Berni Breen Lancair 360 ----------MB_8CF064C9CD145BF_26B0_FB9FC_webmail-m140.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
Berni
 
it would  help to see some pics of your fuel system install.= The Lancair 360 is a tightly cowl and heat is most likely causing the prob= lem. I am guessing you have a firewall mounted gasolator and boost pum= p and when you are hot the fuel is being  preheated thus messing up th= e fuel servo. Fuel servo's do not like air in the fuel line. Randy Snarr hi= t on the head recommending Don of Airflow performance. You really should be= contacting him as he is the fuel injection expert. Take some pics of what = you have and send them to him.
 
My system has only the fuel line going to the mechanical fuel pump- se= rvo - spider- cylinders all insulated  forward the firewall and have n= one of your problems nor is it hard to start when hot. I have no gasolator = only airflow performance filter with a drain mounted on the belly floor und= er the seat and my boost pump in the nose gear well. Not saying you need to= change to this design just showing that you take away(relocate) as many of= the preheated sources as possiable and the system works much better.&= nbsp;
 
steve alderman  360 


= -----Original Message-----
From: Berni Breen <bbreen@cableone.net>
To: lml <lml@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Mon, May 21, 2012 2:31 pm
Subject: [LML] 360 still surging

Many of you guy= s have offered suggestions to help me remedy my ongoing engine surge challe= nge.  As a reminder...my fuel injected IO360 displays a very pronounce= d surge during idle and taxi following a flight and brief shutdown/restart.=  The problem never occurs when the engine iis cool.  

I have tried suggestions such as ground running the engine at 1700 rpm= for extended periods following a restart in an attempt to get some air mov= ing through the cowl but that has resulted in limited success.  So far= my only remedy is to let the engine sit for a long enough period to let it= cool significantly.  If I do, I have zero issues with surg= ing.

I even removed my fuel injector servo and sent it off for overha= ul (not an inexpensive undertaking) as another attempt to remedy my problem= .  That idea does not address what I firmly believe to be the problem,= heat causing fuel vapor lock, but I tried it anyway.  I reinstalled t= he servo yesterday and test flew.  The plane performed flawlessly as i= t always does following a first start.  When I returned home and let i= t sit for 20 minutes, restarted and went to taxi, the surge was just as pro= nounced as ever.

All of my fuel lines are insulated and fire sleeved.  The o= nly exposed lines are the small lines that run up to the spider on the top = of the engine. I do not have any fuel leaks.  Turning on my electric f= uel pump, while increasing fuel pressure from 20 to 25 psi, does not remedy= the surge issue.

As posted here before I have taken the active and lifted off sev= eral times with this surge issue going on as the surge quits once I apply f= ull throttle.  As several of you have pointed out this is not a safe w= ay to proceed therefore I am again asking for ideas/suggestions from you gu= ys.

Many years ago in my drag racing days me and several of my frien= ds would install a cooling can to cool down the fuel and therefore (we beli= eved) helped us produce more power.  We would use a coffee can, insert= a coil of copper fuel line in the can, put this contraption in line (fuel = line) fill it and fill it with ice prior to a run.  While this is not = a practical long term solution, is this the kind of thing I should be doing= to prove/disprove my belief that I have a vapor lock issue?

I sincerely appreciate any and all suggestions!

Berni Breen
Lancair 360


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