X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 10:23:51 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from nm16-vm0.bullet.mail.ac4.yahoo.com ([98.139.52.238] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.1) with SMTP id 5092604 for lml@lancaironline.net; Mon, 15 Aug 2011 10:12:06 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=98.139.52.238; envelope-from=chris_zavatson@yahoo.com Received: from [98.139.52.188] by nm16.bullet.mail.ac4.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Aug 2011 14:11:30 -0000 Received: from [98.139.52.154] by tm1.bullet.mail.ac4.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Aug 2011 14:11:30 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1037.mail.ac4.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Aug 2011 14:11:30 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 130314.53589.bm@omp1037.mail.ac4.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 358 invoked by uid 60001); 15 Aug 2011 14:11:29 -0000 DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=jHIEZ5CLPdCTw6e6JOIQaKxLEpBC/WAwKReVOGAZwZm4S60wKzOeLhkdnDf8qVpp6muGOLvgRXhfkJxPhFhoAciFNn8+Fox2G7awvOX1Z/37E7ytTidnEcr874dCmgH/A7b2OpKthjS7VEwuNUd5jghc3j6Od/ZmnAVBI45tcF8=; X-YMail-OSG: RxRHpl0VM1kGA25bv.B_iByxfXzrQhtiwrLfvfYl1Vo.iqG yrF4tYBLYvA0gMlxDpNQgMF6RuffmREOjoNp8En33ZVV6gaTi1ejb.KWWHlq YVT73c1m0Z5Uv.MKlyY6JgA6ya2igolx3NmIq85iFw0YTSRN7yqLtY1RgExb l7oTWR2132LHX.a8ktBu3lXaZAbsd4E8Uy3XFzRKLXjbZJu3ryOkVrpqCx1j jj9n6fQNtxXnJUFPx3ngtfGUWD.Uat_U5OHuqDqXz0QgFKK_FyKrh9gtrx7. vsg.WFQfD4hiJg3i4viiY78RfURg2OABdesMoqss2UwUw..1ILG3v5SW5Ezf ohozR_srAR9uRNsQoymeG31vpQi0AAgrjlswIxiGeOSHhr5kx6X37eUbQvAr LSHsd90HaNPAShJwtWXC86w0Tww_X9p_1XnT1Bkj6qAiACBer9NY68N2ERB3 ovWHMEiIOdhpTkpvRAsqcEUpu9h6nPPSd9i5rh_v7WPLz1ptJ Received: from [99.169.200.254] by web36905.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 15 Aug 2011 07:11:29 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.113.313619 References: X-Original-Message-ID: <1313417489.81531.YahooMailNeo@web36905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Original-Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 07:11:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Zavatson Reply-To: Chris Zavatson Subject: Re: [LML] flap deflection on LN 360 - outboard gear X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-2078121154-1313417489=:81531" --0-2078121154-1313417489=:81531 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Doug,=0AI use full flaps 99% of the time.=A0 This is one of the features I = really love on this plane.=A0 They are extremely effective.=A0 I get about= =A045 degrees.=0AChris=0A=A0=0AChris Zavatson=0AN91CZ=0A360std=0Awww.N91CZ.= com=A0 =0A=0AFrom: Doug Baleshta =0ATo: lml@lancaironline= .net=0ASent: Sunday, August 14, 2011 6:30 AM=0ASubject: [LML] flap deflecti= on on LN 360 - outboard gear=0A=0AJust finalizing all the settings before t= he big spark next week.=A0 It will be nice after 6 years to make some smoke= ...=0AI noticed that my flaps are moving down to around 30 degrees, 10 degr= ees less than the plans.=A0 This is due mainly to the amount the control ho= rn intrudes into the back seat which I could change with some rasping etc.= =A0 Will 10 degrees make much difference, what do you drivers use, do you e= ver use full flaps?=0A=0AThanks=0ADoug=0A=0A>>> 08/12/11 11= :48 AM >>>=0AMichael Smith, where ever=A0 you are, I like to ask you a few = questions about =0Athe L-IV...All I hear is about=A0 the L-IVP and I decide= d to go the IV =0Aroute...The kit that I bought is a IVP and=A0 after all t= he troubles that I have =0Aheard about I'm staying with the IV...But I=A0 w= ould like to ask some info about =0Ait.=0AThanks in=A0 advance,=0AMichael= =A0 Giardino=0AGlasair II-RG=A0 flying=0A7sz L-IV being=A0 painted=0A_n66mg= @aol.com_ (mailto:n66mg@aol.com) =0A310-678-4068=A0 cell=0A=0A=0AIn a messa= ge dated 8/11/2011 1:33:36 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,=A0 =0Agt_phantom@hot= mail.com writes:=0A=0AHi=A0 Michael,=0A=0AYou left out a very important par= t of that study, leaving your=A0 conclusions =0Aquestionable.=0A=0AEven the= persons who conducted the study=A0 suggested that at least part (or =0Aper= haps most) of the reason for the=A0 statistics had to do with people flying= =0Ain airplanes that were not=A0 familiar.=A0 With steam gages, they all l= ook =0Apretty much the same; not so=A0 flat panels.=0A=0ALike others, you h= ave therefore drawn the wrong=A0 conclusion.=A0 It is not the =0AEFIS that = is "more dangerous," but the pilot=A0 who neglects to become =0Aextremely c= ompetent with their chosen panel=A0 before flying IFR "for real."=0A=0AIf y= ou are going to strictly fly random=A0 rentals, I would agree that your =0A= best strategy is to stick to steam=A0 gages.=A0 If, however, 99% of your fl= ying =0Awill be in your own plane then=A0 you simply need to become complet= ely =0Aknowledgeable about / comfortable with=A0 your panel before flying i= nto the soup.=0A=0AFly=A0 safe!=0A=0ABill=0A=0A=0AOn 01/-10/-28163 02:59 PM= , Colyn Case wrote:=A0 =0Amichael,=A0 got a link to that report?=0A=0A=0A= =0AOn Aug 10, 2011, at 8:13 AM, Michael Smith wrote:=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AAll thes= e discussions about panel upgrades and so on begs the question as to=0A=0Aw= hich setup- a an EFIS and flat screen set up or standard spinning gyros=0A= =0Aworks better in terms of delivering an intact crew and passenger to the= =0A=0Aterminal and a plane that is reusable for further flight. I clearly a= gree=0A=0Athe panels look cool, but I do pay attention to peer reviewed sci= ence.=A0 The =0A=0A=0A=0ACirrus folks did a study and the results published= about a year ago=0A=0Acomparing the conventional gyro panels and the EFIS = in the same model of=0A=0Aplane- as close a randomized controlled trial in = aviation as possible these=0A=0Adays.=A0 =0A=0A=0A=0AThe EFIS cohort bent m= ore planes and orphaned more kids than the old school=0A=0Agyros. =0A=0A=0A= =0ASo I won't be flying with an EFIS until someone can prove they're safer.= =0A=0A=0A=0AMichael Smith=0A=0ALIV now over 1000TT=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A-= -=0A=0AFor archives and unsub =0A_http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lm= l/List.html_ (http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html) =0A=0A= =0A=0A=0A--=0A=0A=0A=0AFor archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net= :81/lists/lml/List.html=0A=0A=0A=0A--=0AFor archives and unsub http://mail.= lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html --0-2078121154-1313417489=:81531 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Doug,
I use full flaps 99%= of the time.  This is one of the features I really love on this plane= .  They are extremely effective.  I get about 45 degrees.
Chris
 
Chris Zavatson
N91CZ
360std

From:= Doug Baleshta <dbaleshta@tru.ca>
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2011 6:30 AM
Subject: [LML] flap deflection o= n LN 360 - outboard gear

Just finalizing all the settings bef= ore the big spark next week.  It will be nice after 6 years to make so= me smoke...
I noticed that my flaps are moving down to around 30 degrees= , 10 degrees less than the plans.  This is due mainly to the amount th= e control horn intrudes into the back seat which I could change with some rasping et= c.  Will 10 degrees make much difference, what do you drivers use, do = you ever use full flaps?

Thanks
Doug

>>> <N66mg@aol.com= > 08/12/11 11:48 AM >>>
Michael Smith, where ever  = you are, I like to ask you a few questions about
the L-IV...All I hear = is about  the L-IVP and I decided to go the IV
route...The kit tha= t I bought is a IVP and  after all the troubles that I have
heard = about I'm staying with the IV...But I  would like to ask some info abo= ut
it.
Thanks in  advance,
Michael  Giardino
Glasair= II-RG  flying
7sz L-IV being  painted
_n66mg@aol.com_ (mailto= :n66mg@aol.com)
310-678-4068 = cell


In a message dated 8/11/2011 1:33:36 P.M. Pacific Daylight= Time, 
gt_phantom@hotmail.com writes:

Hi = ; Michael,

You left out a very important part of that study, leaving= your  conclusions
questionable.

Even the persons who condu= cted the study  suggested that at least part (or
perhaps most) of = the reason for the  statistics had to do with people flying
in air= planes that were not  familiar.  With steam gages, they all look =
pretty much the same; not so  flat panels.

Like others, you= have therefore drawn the wrong  conclusion.  It is not the
E= FIS that is "more dangerous," but the pilot  who neglects to become extremely competent with their chosen panel  before flying IFR "for real."

If you are going to strictly fly random  rentals, I wou= ld agree that your
best strategy is to stick to steam  gages. = ; If, however, 99% of your flying
will be in your own plane then  = you simply need to become completely
knowledgeable about / comfortable = with  your panel before flying into the soup.

Fly  safe!
Bill


On 01/-10/-28163 02:59 PM, Colyn Case wrote:  michael,  got a link to that report?



On Aug 10, 2011,= at 8:13 AM, Michael Smith wrote:




All these discussions = about panel upgrades and so on begs the question as to

which setup- = a an EFIS and flat screen set up or standard spinning gyros

works be= tter in terms of delivering an intact crew and passenger to the

term= inal and a plane that is reusable for further flight. I clearly agree
the panels look cool, but I do pay attention to peer reviewed science.  The



Cirrus folks did a study and the result= s published about a year ago

comparing the conventional gyro panels = and the EFIS in the same model of

plane- as close a randomized contr= olled trial in aviation as possible these

days. 


The EFIS cohort bent more planes and orphaned more kids than the old scho= ol

gyros.



So I won't be flying with an EFIS until so= meone can prove they're safer.



Michael Smith

LIV now = over 1000TT







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