X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 06:13:57 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from imr-ma05.mx.aol.com ([64.12.100.31] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.15) with ESMTP id 3801484 for lml@lancaironline.net; Mon, 10 Aug 2009 23:38:12 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.100.31; envelope-from=Sky2high@aol.com Received: from imo-da02.mx.aol.com (imo-da02.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.200]) by imr-ma05.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id n7B3bPaR002932 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 2009 23:37:26 -0400 Received: from Sky2high@aol.com by imo-da02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.5.) id q.bbf.55d755b5 (65098) for ; Mon, 10 Aug 2009 23:37:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Sky2high@aol.com X-Original-Message-ID: X-Original-Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 23:37:31 EDT Subject: Re: [LML] Re: p-factor takeoff in 235/320 X-Original-To: lml@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1249961851" X-Mailer: AOL 9.1 sub 5006 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: Sky2high@aol.com -------------------------------1249961851 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Earl, Interesting reminder...... For myself, I have found the following useful when operating my 320 at slower speeds (below 120 KIAS, 10 degrees or greater flaps to keep the nose down) - I find it necessary to max trim right rudder to keep the ball centered (the rudder itself is not full right, just the trim). And, a go around never requires full power as the prop is left in cruise pitch with the power advanced at a moderate pace until in positive climb. Flaps retracted to takeoff position with the gear left down and locked and pitch trim to match the flap position. After all, we are flying a slick airplane that is over powered by spam can standards (especially a 320 powered 235 or a 400 powered 360, let alone a 360 powered 360). A missed approach is slightly different as the airplane is cleaned up and the power advanced sufficiently for a climb at approach speed (approximately 120 KIAS). Wake up right foot! Grayhawk In a message dated 8/10/2009 8:57:50 P.M. Central Daylight Time, earleschroeder@yahoo.com writes: I'm another 235/320 driver that added the ventral fin that extends the length of the rudder. I did not add the trailing edge full length. So far, I've had enough rudder to maintain runway heading using the gradual throttle (as I too was taught many years ago). Use caution and apply rudder quickly on a go around as this caused an unwanted left turn recently.. I blame not paying attention...seeing the windscreen fill with tree tops brought me back to reality! Earl ____________________________________ From: randy snarr To: lml@lancaironline.net Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 5:18:49 PM Subject: [LML] Re: p-factor takeoff in 235/320 I did as Gary described but also added 3" to the trailing edge of the rudder full length. I can nail the power on take off and have no trouble keeping the airplane heading down the center line. FWIW, I was taught to add power gradually which I do, usually anyway... Randy Snarr N694RS 235/320 --- On Mon, 8/10/09, Gary Edwards <_gary21sn@hotmail.com_ (mailto:gary21sn@hotmail.com) > wrote: > From: Gary Edwards <_gary21sn@hotmail.com_ (mailto:gary21sn@hotmail.com) > > Subject: [LML] Re: p-factor takeoff in 235/320 > To: _lml@lancaironline.net_ (mailto:lml@lancaironline.net) > Date: Monday, August 10, 2009, 1:15 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > The 235 airframe has a small rudder compared the > 320/360 series. A > majority of 235 builders have added the ventral fin to the > bottom of the > fuselage and added the same amount to the bottom of the > rudder. This > rudder addition adds about 20% more surface area to the > rudder and helps > significantly during the takeoff for airframes > with 320's. > > Doing as you have done, adding power slowly in > the initial takeoff > roll, is still required even with the added amount to the > rudder. On > occasion, full right rudder will still not be enough to > overcome the 320 > overpowering the 235 airframe. Particularly if there > is a bit of > crosswind. > > Gary Edwards > LNC2 > > ----- Original Message > ----- > From: terrence > o'neill > To: _lml@lancaironline.net_ (mailto:lml@lancaironline.net) > > Sent: Monday, August > 10, 2009 8:41 > AM > Subject: [LML] > p-factor takeoff in > 235/320 > > > Hey! It works... slow > application of throttle with full right rudder, then > gradually reducing rudder > . > I just > pretend I'm in a > P-51. : ) > Thanks > to all for the > suggestions. > > Terrence > L235/320 > N211AL > -- For archives and unsub _http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html_ (http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html) -------------------------------1249961851 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Earl,
 
Interesting reminder......  For myself, I have found the followi= ng=20 useful when operating my 320 at slower speeds (below 120 KIAS, 10 degrees= or=20 greater flaps to keep the nose down) - I find it necessary to ma= x trim=20 right rudder to keep the ball centered (the rudder itself is not full righ= t,=20 just the trim).  And, a go around never requires full power as the pr= op is=20 left in cruise pitch with the power advanced at a moderate=20 pace until in positive climb.  Flaps retracted to takeoff=20 position with the gear left down and locked and pitch trim to ma= tch=20 the flap position.  After all, we are flying a slick airplane th= at is=20 over powered by spam can standards (especially a 320 powered 235 or a 400= =20 powered 360, let alone a 360 powered 360).  A missed approach is slig= htly=20 different as the airplane is cleaned up and the power advanced sufficientl= y for=20 a climb at approach speed (approximately 120 KIAS).  Wake up right=20 foot!
 
Grayhawk
 
In a message dated 8/10/2009 8:57:50 P.M. Central Daylight Time,=20 earleschroeder@yahoo.com writes:
I'm=20 another 235/320 driver that added the ventral fin that extends the lengt= h of=20 the rudder.  I did not add the trailing edge full length.

So= far,=20 I've had enough rudder to maintain runway heading using the gradual thro= ttle=20 (as I too was taught many years ago).  Use caution and apply rudder= =20 quickly on a go around as this caused an unwanted left turn recently..= I blame=20 not paying attention...seeing the windscreen fill with tree tops brought= me=20 back to reality!

Earl

=
From: randy snarr=20 <randylsnarr@yahoo.com>
To: lml@lancaironline.net
<= SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 5:1= 8:49=20 PM
Subject: [LML] Re:= =20 p-factor takeoff in 235/320

I did as Gary described but al= so=20 added 3" to the trailing edge of the rudder full length.
I can nail= the=20 power on take off and have no trouble keeping the airplane heading down= the=20 center line.
FWIW,
I was taught to add power gradually which I do= ,=20 usually anyway...

Randy Snarr
N694RS
235/320

--- On= Mon,=20 8/10/09, Gary Edwards <gary21sn@hotmail.com>=20 wrote:

> From: Gary Edwards <gary21sn@hotmail.com>
= >=20 Subject: [LML] Re: p-factor takeoff in 235/320
> To: lml@lancaironline.net
&g= t; Date:=20 Monday, August 10, 2009, 1:15 PM
>
>
> =20
> 
>
>
>
>
>
>&nbs= p;=20
>
> The 235 airframe has a small rudder compared the
&g= t;=20 320/360 series.  A
> majority of 235 builders have added the= =20 ventral fin to the
> bottom of the
> fuselage and added the= same=20 amount to the bottom of the
> rudder.  This
> rudder= =20 addition adds about 20% more surface area to the
> rudder and help= s=20
> significantly during the takeoff for airframes
>=20 with 320's.
>  
> Doing as you have done, add= ing=20 power slowly in
> the initial takeoff
> roll, is still requ= ired=20 even with the added amount to the
> rudder.  On
> occa= sion,=20 full right rudder will still not be enough to
> overcome the 320= =20
> overpowering the 235 airframe.  Particularly if there
&= gt; is=20 a bit of
> crosswind.
>  
> Gary Edwards
>= =20 LNC2  
>
>  ----- Original Message
>= -----=20
>  From: terrence
>  o'neill
>  To:= lml@lancaironline.net
&g= t;=20
>  Sent: Monday, August
> 10, 2009 8:41
> = =20 AM
>  Subject: [LML]
> p-factor takeoff in
>&nbs= p;=20 235/320
> 
>
>  Hey!  It works... slo= w=20
>  application of throttle with full right rudder, then
&= gt;=20 gradually reducing rudder
>  .
>  I just
>= =20 pretend I'm in a
>  P-51.  : )
>  Thanks
= >=20 to all for the
>  suggestions.
>   
>&= nbsp;=20 Terrence
>  L235/320
> N211AL
>=20




--
For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html=

-------------------------------1249961851--