Return-Path: Sender: "Marvin Kaye" To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 21:19:54 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: <5zq@cox.net> Received: from lakermmtao12.cox.net ([68.230.240.27] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3c3) with ESMTP id 828852 for lml@lancaironline.net; Tue, 29 Mar 2005 14:05:30 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=68.230.240.27; envelope-from=5zq@cox.net Received: from OFFICE ([68.110.249.147]) by lakermmtao12.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.04.00 201-2131-118-20041027) with SMTP id <20050329190443.HKUF2476.lakermmtao12.cox.net@OFFICE> for ; Tue, 29 Mar 2005 14:04:43 -0500 X-Original-Message-ID: <024601c53491$fd782960$6401a8c0@OFFICE> From: "Bill&Sue" <5zq@cox.net> X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" References: Subject: Re: [LML] Re: ICE X-Original-Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 14:03:23 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0243_01C53468.11D93D60" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0243_01C53468.11D93D60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Thanks for the story. What was the lesson learned? >=20 Hmmm, I'm still trying to figure that one out. I had been hard IFR all = day from Virginia. The area forcast mentioned chance of light rime but I = hadn't seen any all day. There were no pilot reports of icing. When I = did see the light rime it wasn't a big deal. During the descent, = however, I believe that I flew through freezing rain. This would be = consistant with the shape of the ice on the leading edge (two horns = above and below the LE with a concave forward face between them, ie; a = splash pattern) as well as the extremely rapid buildup of ice. Freezing = rain was not in the forcast and was not occurring on the ground. I also = felt that I had an "out" (incorrect) with the surface temps reporting = above freezing everywhere (+3 at Plainview). By the time the ice began = forming rapidly, I was already on the approach. Damn few other ideas = came to mind other than to try to keep the airplane under control and to = try to be at the runway when I got to the surface. There was no hope of = holding altitude or "stretching" the descent. Ice is still extremely difficult to predict. I've spent countless hours = in conditions seemingly perfect for ice and seen none. Other times in = what appears to be identical conditions, ice forms. Rarely, such as what = happened to me Saturday afternoon, ice forms so fast that if you're not = very close to an airport and start an approach immediately, you're not = gonna make it. In 24,000 hours I've seen a bit of ice, but this was the = worst and most rapidly forming I've ever encountered.=20 Matt, one problem that I didn't have was any icing on the static ports. = I think that my "test" showed that they will remain ice free in the = worst of conditions. (mine are behind the canopy,as per the manual) The = pitot heat worked and so all instruments remained reliable.=20 I take a lot of crap for trying to get de-ice on my LIV-P. People say "just stay out of it". Good advice I think but I'm not sure real life always works out that way. Was this such a case or could you have avoided it? =20 Colyn Yes, of course. Stay on the ground. Just don't fly IFR with temps = anywhere near freezing. But like you say, real life doesn't always work = out that way. Bill Harrelson 5zq@cox.net N5ZQ 320 950+ hrs N6ZQ IV 1%=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0243_01C53468.11D93D60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

> Thanks for the story. What = was the=20 lesson learned?
>

Hmmm, I'm still trying = to figure that=20 one out. I had been hard IFR all day from Virginia. The area forcast = mentioned=20 chance of light rime but I hadn't seen any all day. There were no pilot = reports=20 of icing. When I did see the light rime it wasn't a big deal. During the = descent, however, I believe that I flew through freezing rain. This = would be=20 consistant with the shape of the ice on the leading edge (two horns = above and=20 below the LE with a concave forward face between them, ie; a splash = pattern) as=20 well as the extremely rapid buildup of ice. Freezing rain was not in the = forcast=20 and was not occurring on the ground. I also felt that I had an "out"=20 (incorrect) with the surface temps reporting above freezing = everywhere (+3=20 at Plainview). By the time the ice began forming rapidly, I was = already on=20 the approach. Damn few other ideas came to mind other than to try to = keep the=20 airplane under control and to try to be at the runway when I got to the = surface.=20 There was no hope of holding altitude or "stretching" the = descent.

Ice is still extremely = difficult to=20 predict. I've spent countless hours in conditions seemingly perfect for = ice and=20 seen none. Other times in what appears to be identical conditions, ice = forms.=20 Rarely, such as what happened to me Saturday afternoon, ice forms so = fast that=20 if you're not very close to an airport and start an approach = immediately, you're=20 not gonna make it. In 24,000 hours I've seen a bit of ice, but this = was the=20 worst and most rapidly forming I've ever encountered.

Matt, one problem that = I didn't have=20 was any icing on the static ports. I think that my "test" showed that = they will=20 remain ice free in the worst of conditions. (mine are behind the = canopy,as per=20 the manual) The pitot = heat worked=20 and so all instruments remained reliable.

I take a lot of crap for trying to get = de-ice on=20 my LIV-P.
People say "just stay out of=20 it". Good advice I think but I'm
not sure real = life always=20 works out that way. Was this such a case
or could you = have=20 avoided it?

Colyn

Yes, of course. Stay on the ground. Just don't fly IFR with = temps=20 anywhere near freezing. But like you say, real life doesn't always work = out that=20 way.

Bill Harrelson

N5ZQ 320 950+ hrs

N6ZQ IV 1%

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