Return-Path: Received: from [206.228.212.23] (HELO mail.statesville.net) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2b2) with ESMTP id 3160571 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 20:28:17 -0400 Received: from TWJames [63.162.171.178] by mail.statesville.net (SMTPD32-8.10) id A1D234B024E; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 20:31:14 -0400 From: "Tommy James" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] long comments after 2 hours on rev-2 Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 20:28:11 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01C41F3A.57B12D50" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: X-RBL-Warning: REVDNS: This E-mail was sent from a MUA/MTA 63.162.171.178 with no reverse DNS entry. X-Declude-Sender: twjames@statesville.net [63.162.171.178] X-Note: Scanned for Spam This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C41F3A.57B12D50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MessageHi Rusty, When you measured the prop angle what proceedure did you use? Tommy (The intermittent coil problem is back except it ain't intermittent anylonger) -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On Behalf Of Russell Duffy Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2004 7:00 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] long comments after 2 hours on rev-2 Greetings, I made a couple more flights today, and have a few comments about the rev-2 configuration. The best news is that I haven't had one single leak, loose bolt, or other issue with the new configuration. I'm actually comfortable enough to venture away from the airport now. The other best news is that cooling is a complete non-issue. With 82 F ambient temps, I couldn't overheat the water or oil if I tried. The highest I've seen oil is 180 F, and water was maybe 160 F. I'm still running distilled water, so when I add some coolant, it will probably heat up a little. It will also get about 20 degrees hotter in the next couple months, so that won't help either. I'm willing to bet that cooling will still work well enough to install the cowl cheek extensions. More good news- the handling is much better now that that 42 lbs is gone from the nose. It actually flies like an RV, and stall speed is down a few MPH as well. I've got all the wheel pant brackets installed now, but haven't installed the wheel pants yet. I'm certain that the pants, and gear fairings will make a large difference in speed (15-20 mph), and perhaps even climb. I also need to install the gear leg stiffeners due to some shimmy that I'm having. Currently, the speed is 170 mph TAS at full throttle, regardless of prop pitch it seems. This is as fast as it ever was before, so the lack of a turbo doesn't seem to be hurting me here. At 13 degrees, the rpm is 6700, and at 15 degrees, the rpm is 6200. Once I get the airframe cleaned up, I'll feed the numbers to Warp Drive, and let them taper the blades. They claim the tapering will add about 4 degrees of effective pitch to high speed, but have virtually no effect on climb. I've actually read comments by owners who say this is really true, and that it acts almost like a CS prop. We shall see. The worst news is probably climb performance. The best I can manage now is 1500 fpm, which is still at only 100 mph. I'm hoping the wheel pants and fairings will improve this, and put it back in the 120 mph range where you would expect it to be. Either way, it's unlikely that I'll ever make it back to 2700 fpm like it was with the turbo. It does appear that the turbo was pulling it's own weight, but I'm still happy to be rid of it. This is another area where the prop pitch baffles me. You would think that reducing pitch, and increasing rpm would help climb, but that just isn't the case. At 13 degrees, the best climb was 1000 fpm, at 5400 rpm, and 100 mph. At 15 degrees, best climb is 1500 fpm, at 5100 rpm, and 100 mph. I just do NOT understand this, but it also happened back with the turbo. Is it possible that this is just something goofy about the Warp Drive prop? I want to run the engine at higher rpms, but neither speed, nor climb improves. Am I losing all the extra power on the prop? Finally (I heard that sigh of relief), I'm not convinced that the long intake runners are causing me any real harm (another sigh of relief heard from Paul). Throttle response is not that bad, and I've been monitoring the temp of the runners. So far, the temp has remained right around ambient. The only thing I'm wondering about are some high EGT's. This was something that was mentioned as a result of this long intake scheme, and I can easily exceed 1800 degrees. Which brings me to a question: I'm running along at normal mixture, and settle into a cruise configuration. When I start to lean the mixture, EGT's go immediately up to 1800 plus degrees (about 10 inches from the port). This trips the alarm that Tracy had pre-set in the EM-2, and I richened it back up. What should I shoot for on leaning the rotary? Is there a rule of thumb such as X number of degrees on the rich side of peak EGT? Thanks for any comments. Cheers, Rusty (driving to Cleveland all day tomorrow) ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C41F3A.57B12D50 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
Hi=20 Rusty,
When=20 you measured the prop angle what proceedure did you = use?
Tommy=20 (The intermittent coil problem is back except it ain't intermittent=20 anylonger)
-----Original Message-----
From: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On Behalf Of Russell=20 Duffy
Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2004 7:00 PM
To: = Rotary=20 motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] long comments after = 2 hours=20 on rev-2

Greetings,
 
I made a = couple more=20 flights today, and have a few comments about the rev-2 = configuration. =20
 
The best news = is that I=20 haven't had one single leak, loose bolt, or other issue with the new=20 configuration.  I'm actually comfortable enough to venture away = from the=20 airport now. 
 
The other = best news is=20 that cooling is a complete non-issue.  With 82 F ambient temps, I = couldn't overheat the water or oil if I tried.  The highest I've = seen oil=20 is 180 F, and water was maybe 160 F.  I'm still running distilled = water,=20 so when I add some coolant, it will probably heat up a little.  = It will=20 also get about 20 degrees hotter in the next couple months, so that = won't help=20 either.  I'm willing to bet that cooling will still work well = enough to=20 install the cowl cheek extensions.  
 
More good = news- the=20 handling is much better now that that 42 lbs is gone from the = nose.  It=20 actually flies like an RV, and stall speed is down a few MPH as=20 well.
 
I've got all = the wheel=20 pant brackets installed now, but haven't installed the wheel = pants=20 yet.  I'm certain that the pants, and gear fairings will = make a=20 large difference in speed (15-20 mph), and perhaps even = climb.  I=20 also need to install the gear leg stiffeners due to some shimmy that = I'm=20 having.  Currently, the speed is 170 mph TAS at full throttle, = regardless=20 of prop pitch it seems.  This is as fast as it ever was before, = so the=20 lack of a turbo doesn't seem to be hurting me here.  At 13 = degrees, the=20 rpm is 6700, and at 15 degrees, the rpm is 6200.  Once I get the = airframe=20 cleaned up, I'll feed the numbers to Warp Drive, and let = them taper=20 the blades.  They claim the tapering will add about 4 degrees of=20 effective pitch to high speed, but have virtually no effect=20 on climb.  I've actually read comments by owners who say = this is=20 really true, and that it acts almost like a CS prop.  We shall=20 see.    
 
The worst = news is=20 probably climb performance.  The best I can manage now is 1500 = fpm, which=20 is still at only 100 mph.  I'm hoping the wheel pants and = fairings will=20 improve this, and put it back in the 120 mph range where you would = expect it=20 to be.  Either way, it's unlikely that I'll ever make it back to = 2700 fpm=20 like it was with the turbo.  It does appear that the turbo was = pulling=20 it's own weight, but I'm still happy to be rid of it.   This = is=20 another area where the prop pitch baffles me.  You would = think that=20 reducing pitch, and increasing rpm would help climb, but that just = isn't the=20 case.  At 13 degrees, the best climb was 1000 fpm, at 5400 = rpm, and=20 100 mph.  At 15 degrees, best climb is 1500 fpm, at 5100 rpm, and = 100=20 mph.   I just do NOT understand this, but it also = happened=20 back with the turbo.  Is it possible that this is just = something=20 goofy about the Warp Drive prop?  I want to run the = engine at=20 higher rpms, but neither speed, nor climb improves.  Am = I=20 losing all the extra power on the prop?
 
Finally (I = heard that=20 sigh of relief), I'm not convinced that the long intake runners are = causing me=20 any real harm (another sigh of relief heard from Paul).  Throttle = response is not that bad, and I've been monitoring the temp of=20 the runners.  So far, the temp has remained right = around=20 ambient.  The only thing I'm wondering about are some high = EGT's. =20 This was something that was mentioned as a result of this long = intake=20 scheme, and I can easily exceed 1800 degrees.  Which brings me to = a=20 question:
 
I'm running = along at=20 normal mixture, and settle into a cruise configuration.  = When I=20 start to lean the mixture, EGT's go immediately up to 1800 plus = degrees=20 (about 10 inches from the port).  This trips the alarm = that=20 Tracy had pre-set in the EM-2, and I richened it back up.  = What=20 should I shoot for on leaning the rotary?  Is there a rule of = thumb such=20 as X number of degrees on the rich side of peak=20 EGT?  
 
Thanks for = any=20 comments.  
 
Cheers,
Rusty = (driving to=20 Cleveland all day tomorrow)  
 
 
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