Return-Path: Received: from fed1rmmtao04.cox.net ([68.230.241.35] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2b1) with ESMTP id 3151983 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 08 Apr 2004 00:44:09 -0400 Received: from Leonards ([68.111.228.182]) by fed1rmmtao04.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.03.01 201-2131-111-101-20040311) with ESMTP id <20040408044408.JPCE6900.fed1rmmtao04.cox.net@Leonards> for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 00:44:08 -0400 From: "David Leonard" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Cooling Problem Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 21:44:10 -0700 Message-ID: <000d01c41d24$22b3bf90$b6e46f44@Leonards> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01C41CE9.7654E790" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C41CE9.7654E790 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for the encouragement, Ed. The problem is definitely lack of coolant flow as the rad does not even get medium warm. I do have ducting to the rad, but have only run it with the cowl off so far. The problem is circulation, no doubt. How to fix that is still the big question. I am thinking about installing an in-line thermostat from C&R. Do you think that there is any chance that the lack of back pressure is causing the coolant to not flow well? David Leonard The Rotary Roster: http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/rotaryroster/index.html From: Ed Anderson To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 8:38 AM Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: idle speeds Dreadful to hear about your problem, Dave My first six port had about 40 hours on it when I also discovered a coolant leak into number 2 rotor. It also was the results of some overheating before I discovered that I had to "burp" the engine. That engine was built for me using the stock coolant "O" rings. I have since used the TES coolant "O" rings in both the rebuild of the six port as well as my current turbo II block and even though I have overheated the turbo II block (trying to get *&^%$ thermostats to work for me) I have had no recurrence of the coolant leaks. You probably only need the TES type for the "inner" rings, I continue to use the stock outer rings. But, I agree, you need to find out why your setup is failing to cool. As I recall you have a large radiator sitting under the block. If I recall correctly its sitting at a fairly steep angle to the airflow. If you are running the engine without a cowl/duct to capture your prop wash and force it through the fins, you may not be getting sufficient airflow through it. I think someone suggest going to Home Depot/Loews and getting some of that large reinforced clear plastic hose and replace part of your hose runs with that. I might provide some visual clues to what is going on. After all there are only two possibilities. Your coolant flow is insufficient to remove the engine heat at an adequate rate from the engine OR the radiator is not rejecting sufficient heat into the airstream (could be a bit of both I guess). Determining why one or the other of those conditions exists of course is the challenge. With the clear plastic hose, you should be able to get some idea of the flow rate. If you wanted to get techie, you could try to time bubble flow speed along a measure section of that hose and using the cross sectional area of the hose to estimate a flow rate. For that purpose you might want to insert several feet of hose into your circuit some place. I would suggest you try these things before tearing down the engine. I ran my six port for about 10 hours with the leak (but it sounds like it was somewhat smaller leak that you have). As you well know, not much point in rebuilding the engine with that problem unresolved. If coolant flow appears to be adequate, then that would narrow it down to the functioning of your radiator. If you don't have a duct built already, it might be worthwhile to mock one up to direct the airflow more directly into your radiator. Ed Anderson ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C41CE9.7654E790 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message

Thanks for the encouragement, = Ed.  The problem is definitely lack of coolant flow as the rad does not even = get medium warm.  I do have ducting to the rad, but have only run it = with the cowl off so far.  The problem is circulation, no doubt.  How = to fix that is still the big question.  I am thinking about installing an = in-line thermostat from C&R.  Do you think that there is any chance = that the lack of back pressure is causing the coolant to not flow = well?

 

David Leonard

The Rotary = Roster:

http://memb= ers.aol.com/_ht_a/rotaryroster/index.html

From: Ed Anderson

Sent: = Tuesday, April 06, 2004 8:38 AM

Subject: Re: = [FlyRotary] Re: idle speeds

 

Dreadful to hear about your problem, = Dave

 

    My first six port had about 40 = hours on it when I also discovered a coolant leak into number 2 rotor.  It = also was the results of some overheating before I discovered that I had to "burp" the engine.  That engine was built for me using = the stock coolant "O" rings.  I have since used the TES coolant "O" rings in both the rebuild of the six port as well as my = current turbo II block and even though I have overheated the turbo II block = (trying to get *&^%$ thermostats to work for me) I have had no recurrence of = the coolant leaks.  You probably only need the TES type for the "inner" rings, I continue to use the stock outer = rings.

 

    But, I agree, you need to find out = why your setup is failing to cool.  As I recall you have a large = radiator sitting under the block.  If I recall correctly its sitting at a = fairly steep angle to the airflow.  If you are running the engine without = a cowl/duct to capture your prop wash and force it through the fins, you = may not be getting sufficient airflow through it.  I think someone suggest = going to Home Depot/Loews and getting some of that large reinforced clear = plastic hose and replace part of your hose runs with that.  I might provide = some visual clues to what is going on. 

 

   After all there are only two possibilities.  Your coolant flow is insufficient to remove the = engine heat at an adequate rate from the engine OR the radiator is not = rejecting sufficient heat into the airstream (could be a bit of both I = guess).  Determining why one or the other of those conditions exists of course is = the challenge.  With the clear plastic hose, you should be able to get = some idea of the flow rate.  If you wanted to get techie, you could try = to time bubble flow speed along a measure section of that hose and using the = cross sectional area of the hose to estimate a flow rate.  For that = purpose you might want to insert several feet of hose into your circuit some = place.

 

  I would suggest you try these things before = tearing down the engine.  I ran my six port for about 10 hours with the = leak (but it sounds like it was somewhat smaller leak that you have).  As you = well know, not much point in rebuilding the engine with that problem unresolved.  If coolant flow appears to be adequate, then that = would narrow it down to the functioning of your radiator.  If you don't = have a duct built already, it might be worthwhile to mock one up to direct the = airflow more directly into your radiator.

 

Ed Anderson

  

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