Return-Path: Received: from [24.25.9.102] (HELO ms-smtp-03-eri0.southeast.rr.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2b1) with ESMTP id 3149248 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 06 Apr 2004 14:53:35 -0400 Received: from EDWARD (clt25-78-058.carolina.rr.com [24.25.78.58]) by ms-smtp-03-eri0.southeast.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id i36IrWs2029739 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 14:53:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <003701c41c08$75e451b0$2402a8c0@EDWARD> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: Cooling Problem Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 14:53:33 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0034_01C41BE6.EEA0A530" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C41BE6.EEA0A530 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ed Anderson=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 8:38 AM Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: idle speeds Dreadful to hear about your problem, Dave My first six port had about 40 hours on it when I also discovered a = coolant leak into number 2 rotor. It also was the results of some = overheating before I discovered that I had to "burp" the engine. That = engine was built for me using the stock coolant "O" rings. I have since = used the TES coolant "O" rings in both the rebuild of the six port as = well as my current turbo II block and even though I have overheated the = turbo II block (trying to get *&^%$ thermostats to work for me) I have = had no recurrence of the coolant leaks. You probably only need the TES = type for the "inner" rings, I continue to use the stock outer rings. But, I agree, you need to find out why your setup is failing to = cool. As I recall you have a large radiator sitting under the block. = If I recall correctly its sitting at a fairly steep angle to the = airflow. If you are running the engine without a cowl/duct to capture = your prop wash and force it through the fins, you may not be getting = sufficient airflow through it. I think someone suggest going to Home = Depot/Loews and getting some of that large reinforced clear plastic hose = and replace part of your hose runs with that. I might provide some = visual clues to what is going on. =20 After all there are only two possibilities. Your coolant flow is = insufficient to remove the engine heat at an adequate rate from the = engine OR the radiator is not rejecting sufficient heat into the = airstream (could be a bit of both I guess). Determining why one or the = other of those conditions exists of course is the challenge. With the = clear plastic hose, you should be able to get some idea of the flow = rate. If you wanted to get techie, you could try to time bubble flow = speed along a measure section of that hose and using the cross sectional = area of the hose to estimate a flow rate. For that purpose you might = want to insert several feet of hose into your circuit some place. I would suggest you try these things before tearing down the engine. = I ran my six port for about 10 hours with the leak (but it sounds like = it was somewhat smaller leak that you have). As you well know, not much = point in rebuilding the engine with that problem unresolved. If coolant = flow appears to be adequate, then that would narrow it down to the = functioning of your radiator. If you don't have a duct built already, = it might be worthwhile to mock one up to direct the airflow more = directly into your radiator. Ed Anderson =20 Ed Anderson RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC ----- Original Message -----=20 From: David Leonard=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 12:10 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: idle speeds Yes, unfortunately true. I was having those problems trying to get = the coolant to circulate. I thought I was getting a handle on it. The = system was thoroughly burped. At 2000 RPM the coolant was level at = about 140. At 3000 it would cool to about 100. This told me that I was = just circulating a little better at the higher RPM. After about 5 min = at 4000 RPM the coolant temp was still only 150 when coolant began to = spray the canopy. I thought for sure I had a big enough catch can. At = first I couldn't figure out where the coolant was coming from. Until, = to my utter dismay, I discovered it was coming from the oil vent line. = L =20 I had coolant dripping from the exhaust and spilling out around the = injectors. I was so disgusted with the whole project I didn't even want = to think about it. The next day I pressurized the cooling system and = found a very slow leak of coolant into the front rotor chamber (as = evidenced by the spray of coolant into the eye as I peered into the open = spark plug hole and turned the prop - highly NOT recommended). I still have good compression all around, I just need to replace the = water o-rings. I am going to use the TES o-rings. But even that won't = help if I can't solve this damn circulation problem. I am really at = whit's end. There is no reason I shouldn't be making coolant go round = and round. =20 With my work schedule re-building the engine will only set me back = about . 3 months. Will make it thought to get to the next rotary = roundup. David (It could be worse, I could have to do a bunch more fiberglass = work.) Leonard The Rotary Roster: http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/rotaryroster/index.html David Leonard (working on the cowl while I await parts to re-build the engine) Re-build the engine? Did the cooling problems damage something? Man, = I sure hope that's not what you really meant. Rusty=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C41BE6.EEA0A530 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
 
 
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Ed=20 Anderson
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 8:38 AM
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: idle speeds

Dreadful to hear about your problem,=20 Dave
 
    My first six port = had about 40=20 hours on it when I also discovered a coolant leak into number 2 = rotor.  It=20 also was the results of some overheating before I discovered that I had = to=20 "burp" the engine.  That engine was built for me using the stock = coolant=20 "O" rings.  I have since used the TES coolant "O" rings in both the = rebuild=20 of the six port as well as my current turbo II block and even though I = have=20 overheated the turbo II block (trying to get *&^%$ thermostats to = work for=20 me) I have had no recurrence of the coolant leaks.  You probably = only need=20 the TES type for the "inner" rings, I continue to use the stock outer=20 rings.
 
    But, I agree, you = need to find=20 out why your setup is failing to cool.  As I recall you have a = large=20 radiator sitting under the block.  If I recall correctly its = sitting at a=20 fairly steep angle to the airflow.  If you are running the engine = without a=20 cowl/duct to capture your prop wash and force it through the fins, you = may not=20 be getting sufficient airflow through it.  I think someone suggest = going to=20 Home Depot/Loews and getting some of that large reinforced clear plastic = hose=20 and replace part of your hose runs with that.  I might provide some = visual=20 clues to what is going on. 
 
   After all there are only = two=20 possibilities.  Your coolant flow is insufficient to remove the = engine heat=20 at an adequate rate from the engine OR the radiator is not rejecting = sufficient=20 heat into the airstream (could be a bit of both I guess).  = Determining why=20 one or the other of those conditions exists of course is the = challenge. =20 With the clear plastic hose, you should be able to get some idea of the = flow=20 rate.  If you wanted to get techie, you could try to time bubble = flow speed=20 along a measure section of that hose and using the cross sectional area = of the=20 hose to estimate a flow rate.  For that purpose you might want to = insert=20 several feet of hose into your circuit some place.
 
  I would suggest you try these = things before=20 tearing down the engine.  I ran my six port for about 10 hours with = the=20 leak (but it sounds like it was somewhat smaller leak that you = have).  As=20 you well know, not much point in rebuilding the engine with that problem = unresolved.  If coolant flow appears to be adequate, then that = would narrow=20 it down to the functioning of your radiator.  If you don't have a = duct=20 built already, it might be worthwhile to mock one up to direct the = airflow more=20 directly into your radiator.
 
Ed Anderson
  
 
 
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 David=20 Leonard
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 = 12:10=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: idle=20 speeds

Yes,=20 unfortunately true.  I was having those problems trying to get = the=20 coolant to circulate.  I thought I was getting a handle on = it.  The=20 system was thoroughly burped.  At 2000 RPM the coolant was level = at about=20 140.  At 3000 it would cool to about 100.  This told me that = I was=20 just circulating a little better at the higher RPM.  After about = 5 min at=20 4000 RPM the coolant temp was  still only 150 when coolant began = to spray=20 the canopy.  I thought for sure I had a big enough catch = can.  At=20 first I couldn=92t figure out where the coolant was coming from.  = Until, to=20 my utter dismay, I discovered it was coming from the oil vent = line. =20 L =20

 

I had = coolant=20 dripping from the exhaust and spilling out around the injectors.  = I was=20 so disgusted with the whole project I didn=92t even want to think = about=20 it.  The next day I pressurized the cooling system and found a = very slow=20 leak of coolant into the front rotor chamber (as evidenced by the = spray of=20 coolant into the eye as I peered into the open spark plug hole and = turned the=20 prop =96 highly NOT recommended).

 

I still = have good=20 compression all around, I just need to replace the water = o-rings.  I am=20 going to use the TES o-rings.  But even that won=92t help if I = can=92t solve=20 this damn circulation problem.  I am really at whit=92s = end.  There is=20 no reason I shouldn=92t be making coolant go round and round. =20

 

With my = work schedule=20 re-building the engine will only set me back about =85  3 = months. =20 Will make it thought to get to the next rotary = roundup.

 

David  = (It could=20 be worse, I could have to do a bunch more fiberglass work.)=20 Leonard

The Rotary=20 Roster:

http://memb= ers.aol.com/_ht_a/rotaryroster/index.html

David=20 Leonard (working on the cowl while I await parts to re-build=20 the
engine)

 

Re-build = the=20 engine?  Did the cooling problems damage something?  Man, I = sure=20 hope that's not what you really meant.

 

Rusty=20

 

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