X-CGP-ClamAV-Result: CLEAN X-VirusScanner: Niversoft's CGPClamav Helper v1.23.0 (ClamAV engine v0.103.0) X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-KAS-Score: 0 [] From: "Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com" Received: from mail-oi1-f177.google.com ([209.85.167.177] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.3.5) with ESMTPS id 377566 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 20 Oct 2021 22:22:06 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.167.177; envelope-from=ceengland7@gmail.com Received: by mail-oi1-f177.google.com with SMTP id q129so12113749oib.0 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 2021 19:22:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=message-id:date:mime-version:user-agent:subject:content-language:to :references:from:in-reply-to; bh=PAuOKZg5/iv2jvVdTUbHsdlSS39jCeKxqLAfJfC2URE=; b=Q0QknHonbWpiBQ/DngR6CXfx0FWNweVGFEHBaZepk0ubTnh7dEZCdZUxZ9GwHDNrvG GPsqQKW94B/uR9elmMNKlI7zTMZmdt9e0fMgdlMkSXlu3BLDW5acoUct2O2FSRhDCB34 NP2hkxVepPMOebmLaIar+Nn6jPjOfA5yeODBaouWFdKNQVM+7JPl9g57F6u5ouXbxpPH CBvLXCj/AbZvxjiOJYOd9+flnlCAv81rfAK2oxyvLhwl4V7V+Oof/ZS/CKKxNvjEl9xT ocRv7YKTl46iJinF4xIdq0h5wfnidHqJiOkjuPShvpFCuit9rj3g8sdWiJb2QxDMsmvt Kf6w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:message-id:date:mime-version:user-agent:subject :content-language:to:references:from:in-reply-to; bh=PAuOKZg5/iv2jvVdTUbHsdlSS39jCeKxqLAfJfC2URE=; b=SHBKAE87bigLvImg7rCAq67oBtdHZBtZUN1YQmmckIHnrx3DIGqpvRKD20ZdfUXpHw 9E8gN73GsqrPu2k4luifLVaKx3scWq1J81nVh3IHKFYCfFs9owsowK4KWSATNdFheFL0 +c8ctS/37hd1mNwrEKdxwi7V7/9thq2JybhE4RD020LnZzcuNUpGlHzooFRGc+uoBNn0 Lh/3UpmDPlHmOjaGgC5UyMcsytam2CH/RAHHTVAmjL4n4IKWDW+F1dm6LxyS5yJuMCCS aNjx8cHDCS5tknKPuDnYm9IIUD7U8RTAIuiDxV0SxHF4lh9h7Sk7sFR7/loKP5XWEBJ9 m09w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532wkQxQSiDS/WKhY8y8o3nr8lAsacxx9xxs9u3WUkGnnOjnXTio Dl6yNYtXQK2JU1UTUC0s73JgtqZnADU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzjZ5mEaOHePVnfuiw02QsmR0s7YIzPShC4hM6gzUS1ajJxoBzL71Y6pKiXwnOlntaNcy+LCw== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6808:144d:: with SMTP id x13mr2132736oiv.132.1634782910856; Wed, 20 Oct 2021 19:21:50 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from [192.168.1.17] ([172.58.145.67]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id f8sm811903otp.63.2021.10.20.19.21.49 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 20 Oct 2021 19:21:50 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------13NcGt23AX0Ue2YzpXK8gV4F" Message-ID: <3c03cc42-108b-88c8-f2ed-3593ef5f4ac2@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2021 21:26:39 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.2.0 Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: flex plate Content-Language: en-US To: Rotary motors in aircraft References: In-Reply-To: X-Antivirus: Avast (VPS 211020-4, 10/20/2021), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------13NcGt23AX0Ue2YzpXK8gV4F Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thanks for the info. I think the AL version is about 8 or 9 lbs (without the steel clutch surface). I had thought that the steel racing version was closer to 10-12 lbs; good to know the actual weight. If memory serves, the gen2 turbo manual trans has the same dia as the flex plate & the non-turbos are smaller dia; the used one I bought certainly is smaller. Again if memory serves, Tracy is using an aluminum turbo version in the RV4 that has the 'direct' (no dampers) connection to the sun gear. I agree that the extra flywheel weight reduces torsional resonance issues. If my flexplate gives me trouble, I may try to adapt the damper's hub/spline to the aluminum as 'direct drive'. Charlie On 10/20/2021 3:14 PM, David Leonard wdleonard@gmail.com wrote: > Hi Charlie, > The one I got was chromoly and weighed 22#,  I am sure an aluminum one > would work as well.  The diameter of the ring and the number of teeth > matched the flexplate, but it was closer to the engine by about a half > inch.  I had to mill off just enough of the mating surface so that > Tracy's damper plate& spline socket could fit without hitting the back > of the gearbox mounting plate.   The CNC shop also reamed the bolt > holes in the right place.    The last job was to mill a depression in > the RD-1B mounting plate so that the starter would reach the new > location of the starter teeth.  I figured a few extra pounds in the > flywheel could only help smooth out the engine. > > There is one nice thing about Tracys approach to vibrational > harmonics.  He designed it with ample gear lash so it seems to me that > increasing the weight of the flywheel would be unlikely to worsen > harmonics.  Otherwise, with a tight system I would not be as > confident.  Didn't we all decide that the issue with many other PSRU's > was vibrational harmonics.  Didnt the Ross, Powersport, and > Eigenfelner have this problem?  I have had many problems with my early > design RD-1B, but never a problem with the planetary gears themselves. > > Anyway, I do recall there is a difference between some of the > different flywheels between RX-7 generations but I can't recall which > years the ring size matches the flexplate we use. > > Dave Leonard > > > > > Do you remember what that flywheel weighs? Was it the same > diameter as the flex plate, or was it smaller, like the non-turbo > manual trans flywheels? Did you remove all the disk mating surface > to reduce weight, or just enough to mount the damper plate? > > I've got an aluminum manual trans flywheel on the shelf, but it's > slightly smaller in dia than the flexplate. Wondering about weight > comparisons, mounting, etc. > > In more general terms, the flexplates seem to have a rather > checkered past even in the car. I've got one that came off the car > cracked. > > Charlie > > On 10/19/2021 11:15 AM, David Leonard wdleonard@gmail.com wrote: >> I used one of these: >> https://throtl.com/products/act-xact-streetlite-flywheels-act600145?cq_src=google_ads&cq_cmp=10870770605&cq_term=&cq_med=&cq_plt=gp&gclid=CjwKCAjw2bmLBhBREiwAZ6ugo8jSPo2ktPDdU8xZsTdN80Wbg0xZNiX6JQWuXpJkC7J3DV5b8bs6xRoCeroQAvD_BwE >> >> I mounted the RWS damper plate.  I had to take it to a CNC shop >> to take down the face and locate the mounting holes.  I also had >> to modify the mounting of the starter, but it was a pretty easy job. >> >> Neil, great job on getting your gear-box into production.  We >> sure need it. >> >> Dave Leonard >> >> On Sat, Oct 16, 2021 at 3:48 PM Pam & Dave Williams >> padajute@idcnet.com wrote: >> >> Hello James, >> >> I have a stock 13b ( estimated 150 hp) with RWS equipment. I >> used a racing aluminum flywheel and removed the steel clutch >> facing. Then I resized the RWS splined hub to fit. Basically >> I copied RWS by making a new plate and riveting on the RWS >> splined hub to my new plate. Because the new plate is a >> smaller OD I used 6 bolts instead of 4. I used the same >> durometer rubber cushions. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Dave Williams >> >> *From:*Rotary motors in aircraft >> [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] >> *Sent:* Friday, October 15, 2021 6:27 PM >> *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft >> *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: flex plate >> >> Dave, do you have a recommendation for a lightweight flywheel >> and flexplate/ damper (brand or type) for a 250hp 13b? >> Thanks, James Whitehurst >> >> On Fri, Oct 15, 2021, 12:27 David Leonard wdleonard@gmail.com >> wrote: >> >> But you should know that those are prone to cracking, and >> I had a catastrophic failure of one.  They were never >> designed to carry the output load of the engine, just as >> a way to engage the starter.  Tracey published a revision >> in the archives, or you can convert a manual fly wheel to >> work.  I suggest lightweight aftermarket versions. >> >> Dave Leonard >> >> On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 2:09 PM 12348ung@gmail.com >> wrote: >> >> Thought so, thanks >> >> *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft >> >> *Sent:* Friday, October 15, 2021 8:06 AM >> *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft >> >> *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: flex plate >> >> AUTOMATIC >> >> On Thu, Oct 14, 2021, 4:04 PM 12348ung@gmail.com >> wrote: >> >> Can anyone confirm which flex plate fits the RWS >> redrive?  I believe it comes from a 92 model RX7. >> But is it from an automatic, manual or turbo >> model? All are different apparently. >> >> Thanks Neil. >> > > > > Virus-free. www.avast.com > > > > <#m_1233803227963876889_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus --------------13NcGt23AX0Ue2YzpXK8gV4F Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Thanks for the info. I think the AL version is about 8 or 9 lbs (without the steel clutch surface). I had thought that the steel racing version was closer to 10-12 lbs; good to know the actual weight.

If memory serves, the gen2 turbo manual trans has the same dia as the flex plate & the non-turbos are smaller dia; the used one I bought certainly is smaller. Again if memory serves, Tracy is using an aluminum turbo version in the RV4 that has the 'direct' (no dampers) connection to the sun gear.

I agree that the extra flywheel weight reduces torsional resonance issues. If my flexplate gives me trouble, I may try to adapt the damper's hub/spline to the aluminum as 'direct drive'.

Charlie

On 10/20/2021 3:14 PM, David Leonard wdleonard@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Charlie,
The one I got was chromoly and weighed 22#,  I am sure an aluminum one would work as well.  The diameter of the ring and the number of teeth matched the flexplate, but it was closer to the engine by about a half inch.  I had to mill off just enough of the mating surface so that Tracy's damper plate& spline socket could fit without hitting the back of the gearbox mounting plate.   The CNC shop also reamed the bolt holes in the right place.    The last job was to mill a depression in the RD-1B mounting plate so that the starter would reach the new location of the starter teeth.  I figured a few extra pounds in the flywheel could only help smooth out the engine.  

There is one nice thing about Tracys approach to vibrational harmonics.  He designed it with ample gear lash so it seems to me that increasing the weight of the flywheel would be unlikely to worsen harmonics.  Otherwise, with a tight system I would not be as confident.  Didn't we all decide that the issue with many other PSRU's was vibrational harmonics.  Didnt the Ross, Powersport, and Eigenfelner have this problem?  I have had many problems with my early design RD-1B, but never a problem with the planetary gears themselves.

Anyway, I do recall there is a difference between some of the different flywheels between RX-7 generations but I can't recall which years the ring size matches the flexplate we use.

Dave Leonard




Do you remember what that flywheel weighs? Was it the same diameter as the flex plate, or was it smaller, like the non-turbo manual trans flywheels? Did you remove all the disk mating surface to reduce weight, or just enough to mount the damper plate?

I've got an aluminum manual trans flywheel on the shelf, but it's slightly smaller in dia than the flexplate. Wondering about weight comparisons, mounting, etc.

In more general terms, the flexplates seem to have a rather checkered past even in the car. I've got one that came off the car cracked.

Charlie

On 10/19/2021 11:15 AM, David Leonard wdleonard@gmail.com wrote:
I used one of these:
I mounted the RWS damper plate.  I had to take it to a CNC shop to take down the face and locate the mounting holes.  I also had to modify the mounting of the starter, but it was a pretty easy job.

Neil, great job on getting your gear-box into production.  We sure need it.

Dave Leonard

On Sat, Oct 16, 2021 at 3:48 PM Pam & Dave Williams padajute@idcnet.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Hello James,

 

I have a stock 13b ( estimated 150 hp) with RWS equipment. I used a racing aluminum flywheel and removed the steel clutch facing. Then I resized the RWS splined hub to fit. Basically I copied RWS by making a new plate and riveting on the RWS splined hub to my new plate. Because the new plate is a smaller OD I used 6 bolts instead of 4. I used the same durometer rubber cushions.

 

Thanks,

Dave Williams

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2021 6:27 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: flex plate

 

Dave, do you have a recommendation for a lightweight flywheel and flexplate/ damper (brand or type) for a 250hp 13b? Thanks, James Whitehurst

 

On Fri, Oct 15, 2021, 12:27 David Leonard wdleonard@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

But you should know that those are prone to cracking, and I had a catastrophic failure of one.  They were never designed to carry the output load of the engine, just as a way to engage the starter.  Tracey published a revision in the archives, or you can convert a manual fly wheel to work.  I suggest lightweight aftermarket versions.

 

Dave Leonard

 

On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 2:09 PM 12348ung@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Thought so, thanks

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2021 8:06 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: flex plate

 

AUTOMATIC

 

On Thu, Oct 14, 2021, 4:04 PM 12348ung@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Can anyone confirm which flex plate fits the RWS redrive?  I believe it comes from a 92 model RX7. But is it from an automatic, manual or turbo model?  All are different apparently.

Thanks  Neil.



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