X-CGP-ClamAV-Result: CLEAN X-VirusScanner: Niversoft's CGPClamav Helper v1.23.0 (ClamAV engine v0.103.0) X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-KAS-Score: 0 [] From: "Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com" Received: from mail-pj1-f41.google.com ([209.85.216.41] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.3.5) with ESMTPS id 372268 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 18 Oct 2021 21:07:37 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.216.41; envelope-from=stephen.izett@gmail.com Received: by mail-pj1-f41.google.com with SMTP id oa4so13455559pjb.2 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2021 18:07:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=from:mime-version:subject:date:references:to:in-reply-to:message-id; bh=7GkjYYZOlhFeXZOOKQvlkT3o+XjfqVPQdVDOeiQKssI=; b=k57JYrkJwCPdhotJ5+lpk0IhN0EO6AmHrrZvURomgbLhoFZgRLY+Ua2k0xtqdR9YJV 8uFdRLXutl9/I1Um32by2YHXjiU0j3mxQybp3S8BVM87iAI0vIy2GQ2MvRJtEl4NU9NR knR311eCgZibhzq7ejFhIuo8BTRXYlAG8Wn64gX5XzIsoLSUhNHBF6wof416LV6StyXW 4p2L4SY9qyC0jVEz/SMKWbzrS9+UG8oHZL8xQ1Nmh2bBqnfIPQ7fzU6ehlMnMXqTazN+ 1G+ghXDMh5KfOCaBWSP/Fh8wFL/0Xa9d3APaQPRaZhnvE+mza4C4kgsQ5mnsZIb7C9ui pIyg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:mime-version:subject:date:references:to :in-reply-to:message-id; bh=7GkjYYZOlhFeXZOOKQvlkT3o+XjfqVPQdVDOeiQKssI=; b=5JzZ5pw7ZOorYOx/5ZFrr8B1vdnoFKF+X8MIiv2HkVQYubPMBtajK7wm7nKAAMT0xG 7bn8vIerMyOBYJoggWhL5KCJFrbxI2m8DueZpDmi+JeWJr6D0CBDumwftUjh79WYx2vO BJPV33YRKfsFePIy/wcHExUAloAn480GZ6tKGmS3FSM4dYx/bZnJyZiPE4I47jCgjbSh d/UC+vJGkYRZWpAGifSSaIzMJ6ZyBKfXdqmvuWvtwQaKSFtemFwIcJ5tlUlxCDE6OxYI 5be9+p7AH8QhbPM3DnQxX+eBWv7Tjl/mYNpWA2roYbIBHr1QLIcnhfMUGLa7rgtVCtsa HlOQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532EpjHMjXLZdQknSQy0sKb1uiFruynjkaL6fV4lRWQIMwTiy4R3 ONRVIG0M8s1YFfVuJiwH5n133jPhSU0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzCsfSksp8y9JfZ/XH7pzYhC0j6b7hHHIGhIMhfKmnZ8+tK1OhzSlL3oZGxcWDRNPJTzpOaPQ== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:654d:b0:13e:a097:208e with SMTP id d13-20020a170902654d00b0013ea097208emr30259846pln.31.1634605640311; Mon, 18 Oct 2021 18:07:20 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from smtpclient.apple (203-59-74-185.perm.iinet.net.au. [203.59.74.185]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id w17sm14959348pff.191.2021.10.18.18.07.18 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 18 Oct 2021 18:07:19 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_9C826A69-B386-4CB9-ACA9-B0CED28A3649" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Ag Ops Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2021 09:07:15 +0800 References: To: Rotary motors in aircraft In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13) --Apple-Mail=_9C826A69-B386-4CB9-ACA9-B0CED28A3649 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Good to hear your voice Andrew. My son-in-law in Kojonup would be very interested in what you guys are = talking about. Cheers Steve Izett > On 19 Oct 2021, at 8:02 am, Andrew Martin andrew@martinag.com.au = wrote: >=20 > Neil > Ok lets design it. I reckon we have both been thinking along much the = same lines. >=20 > You thinking rotary wing, something the size of a R22 or smaller? > I reckon vertical mount rotary engine, planetary then differential = gearset to give counter rotating rotor drive. Can all fit in a very = compact package directly above the hopper.=20 > Planetary should have no fixed gears but connected to pancake style = axial flux motor/generators that form the gearbox housing, control the = output ratio and replace alternaror and starter on the motor. no clutch = is required & engine can be set to run at constant rpm. > Have also considered hybrid drive of engine/generator driving counter = rotating motors, easier to build but ends up heavy. > We have already helped development of agopengps, which we use on our = machines for application control, mapping & autosteer. Its not = autonomous just yet, but is open source, farmers helping farmers is the = motto. would just rewrite it into a specific operating system for this = application with 3d maps. >=20 > I like the idea of keeping it all open source. That way if anyone uses = or copies then they take responsibility. Plus ideas flow between the = crazies for superfast development. >=20 > Andrew >=20 > On Tue, 19 Oct 2021 at 4:53 am, 12348ung@gmail.com = > wrote: > Andrew, >=20 > Yeah, that is the current legislation, but with = demand that will change =E2=80=93 I think. Here in Oz, regardless = farmers will disregard the directives as CASA has not got the resources = to police. Even if reported, we are simply spraying water!@!! >=20 > That damage sounds bad, have been called on to fix = the fibreglass on the local ag sprayer to keep him in the air,--- No I = must be dreaming, paint covers a lot of repairs!!! >=20 > Currently here any unmanned aircraft must be fully certified if over = 25 KG!!! That will kill all and sundry but under experimental??? --- = will be interesting as CASA fights to keep authority. >=20 > So far great season here and late with wet cold conditions. Fear = we will lose much to a wet harvest which happens every 20 years or so. = Still, farming is a terminal disease, so we keep on. >=20 > Neil. >=20 > =20 >=20 > From: Rotary motors in aircraft >=20 > Sent: Monday, October 18, 2021 11:07 AM > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Planetary re-drive? >=20 > =20 >=20 > He Neil >=20 > Way to go with the ag drones. Just a pity cant do commercial ops with = Exp. >=20 > Btw. 2 Ag Thrush's and a C180 damaged on our farm when the hangar = collapsed during a cyclone in April. Bit annoying. >=20 > Good to see you still developing. I still got my original 20b that = will be looking for an airframe when time allows. >=20 > Andrew >=20 > =20 >=20 > On Sun, 17 Oct. 2021, 5:56 am 12348ung@gmail.com = , > wrote: >=20 > Marc, > I am the only one making redrives at all recently. = Currently teaming up with a partner who has access to all maching gear = to make another version. Why another version? Well it appears that the = ford planetries and g/box parts in the US are now superseded and = difficult to source so the cost goes up. In my search to find an = alternative I am now to get a planetry from the GM automatics as there = are thousands of them in OZ and naturally reasonably priced. The ratio = is approx. 3:1 which is ideal. > Planetry sourced, the rest of the redrive is also undergoing a = rethink as to cut cost. Currently just the prop shaft cost $1000 if I = take 10 at a time! Singularly the cost is $1500! Looking at getting one = cast instead of CNC. The housing cost me nearly $1200 for a very = "pretty" CNC job, so again casting is much cheaper. A standard planetry = is mandatory, as to change the ratio again the cost is horrendous. = Whatever is closest to 3:1 will have to do. > Input shaft will have to be made as I prefer a sold unit over a = "pinned" unit. Again cost, but necessary. > Cushion drive is mainly cast and CNC to finish -- not difficult to set = up for CNC and 10 of will not break the bank. > The mounting plate will be cast from Magnesium alloy rather than the = 1/2 inch 6061 alloy plate. Again cost, lightness and strength. >=20 > The end result? Cannot tell at this stage but without this = progression, there will be no redrives available. The experimental = market is no reason the go into the cost of producing redrives, but the = real demand looming is the Agricultural drone crop spraying market. = Here the need is for high power / weight engines (mazda) and therefore a = redrive (affordable). Much legislation involved, but under the = experimental banner that all alters. This market is huge if a drone = that can lift up to 500 KG can be made. Even 200 KG is marketable which = is a single rotor mazda. The "electric" charge cannot compete I feel = with the power to weight of the Mazda. =20 > Looking at a twin rotor helicopter mazda powered. Now that = will get the natives talking! Here in Oz a self propelled crop sprayer = is way over $500,000. Then it cannot spray on boggy ground. Spot = spraying is costly, and timing is critical, so drones will come as = lifting capacity arrives. CASA (aust) and the FAA have many regs = regarding spraying chemical by air, but as demand increases the rules = will be forced to change, I think. Regardless the market is there which = will benefit the experimental aviation sector. Built on farm, used on = farm, even if only to spray plant deficiencies and fungicide , the = market is there. > Hopefully it will all happen, but first a redrive. > Neil. >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Rotary motors in aircraft >=20 > Sent: Friday, October 15, 2021 8:22 AM > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > > Subject: [FlyRotary] Planetary re-drive? >=20 > Who is making a 13b fit 3:1 planetary now-a-days? That is since I = can=E2=80=99t get a Mistral unit! Need for a 20b.=20 > M >=20 > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html = >=20 >=20 > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html = --=20 > Regards Andrew Martin Martin Ag --Apple-Mail=_9C826A69-B386-4CB9-ACA9-B0CED28A3649 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Good = to hear your voice Andrew.
My son-in-law in Kojonup would = be very interested in what you guys are talking about.

Cheers

Steve Izett

On 19 Oct 2021, at 8:02 am, Andrew Martin andrew@martinag.com.au <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Neil
Ok lets design it. I = reckon we have both been thinking along much the same lines.

You thinking rotary wing, something the size of a R22 or = smaller?
I reckon vertical mount = rotary engine, planetary then differential gearset to give counter = rotating rotor drive. Can all fit in a very compact package directly = above the hopper. 
Planetary = should have no fixed gears but connected to pancake style axial flux = motor/generators that form the gearbox housing, control the output ratio = and replace alternaror and starter on the motor. no clutch is required = & engine can be set to run at constant rpm.
Have also considered hybrid drive of engine/generator driving = counter rotating motors, easier to build but ends up heavy.
We have already helped development of agopengps, = which we use on our machines for application control, mapping & = autosteer. Its not autonomous just yet, but is open source, farmers = helping farmers is the motto. would just rewrite it into a specific = operating system for this application with 3d maps.

I like the = idea of keeping it all open source. That way if anyone uses or copies = then they take responsibility. Plus ideas flow between the crazies for = superfast development.

Andrew

On Tue, 19 Oct 2021 at 4:53 am, 12348ung@gmail.com = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Andrew,

          &nb= sp;          Yeah, that is = the current legislation, but with demand that will change =E2=80=93 I = think.  Here in Oz, regardless farmers will disregard the = directives as CASA has not got the resources to police.  Even if = reported, we are simply spraying water!@!!

          &nb= sp;     That damage sounds bad,  have been = called on to fix the fibreglass on the local ag sprayer to keep him in = the air,--- No I must be dreaming, paint covers a lot of repairs!!!

Currently here any unmanned aircraft must be = fully certified if over 25 KG!!!    That will kill all = and sundry but under experimental??? ---  will be interesting as = CASA fights to keep authority.

     So far great season here and = late with wet cold conditions.  Fear we will lose much to a wet = harvest which happens every 20 years or so.  Still, farming is a = terminal disease, so we keep on.

Neil.

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Monday, October 18, 2021 11:07 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Planetary re-drive?

 

He Neil

Way to go with the ag drones. Just a = pity cant do commercial ops with Exp.

Btw. 2 = Ag Thrush's and a C180 damaged on our farm when the hangar collapsed = during a cyclone in April. Bit annoying.

Good to = see you still developing. I still got my original 20b that will be = looking for an airframe when time allows.

Andrew

 

On Sun, 17 Oct. 2021, 5:56 am 12348ung@gmail.com, <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Marc,
        =        I am the only one making redrives at all = recently.  Currently teaming up with a partner who has access to = all maching gear to make another version.  Why another = version?  Well it appears that the ford planetries and g/box parts = in the US are now superseded and difficult to source so the cost goes = up.  In my search to find an alternative I am now to get a planetry = from the GM automatics as there are thousands of them in OZ and = naturally reasonably priced.  The ratio is approx. 3:1 which is = ideal.
        Planetry sourced, the = rest of the redrive is also undergoing a rethink as to cut cost.  = Currently just the prop shaft cost $1000 if I take 10 at a time! = Singularly the cost is $1500! Looking at getting one cast instead of = CNC.  The housing cost me nearly $1200 for a very "pretty" CNC job, = so again casting is much cheaper.  A standard planetry is = mandatory, as to change the ratio again the cost is horrendous.  = Whatever is closest to 3:1 will have to do.
Input shaft = will have to be made as I prefer a sold unit over a "pinned" unit.  = Again cost, but necessary.
Cushion drive is mainly cast = and CNC to finish -- not difficult to set up for CNC and 10 of will not = break the bank.
The mounting plate will be cast from = Magnesium alloy rather than the 1/2 inch 6061 alloy plate.  Again = cost, lightness and strength.

The end = result? Cannot tell at this stage but without this progression, there = will be no redrives available.  The experimental market is no = reason the go into the cost of producing redrives, but the real demand = looming is the Agricultural drone crop spraying market.  Here the = need is for high power / weight engines (mazda) and therefore a redrive = (affordable).  Much legislation involved, but under the = experimental banner that all alters.  This market is huge if a = drone that can lift up to 500 KG can be made.  Even 200 KG is = marketable which is a single rotor mazda.  The "electric" charge = cannot compete I feel with the power to weight of the Mazda. 
        Looking at a twin rotor = helicopter mazda powered.  Now that will get the natives = talking!  Here in Oz a self propelled crop sprayer is way over = $500,000.  Then it cannot spray on boggy ground.  Spot = spraying is costly, and timing is critical, so drones will come as = lifting capacity arrives.  CASA (aust) and the FAA have many regs = regarding spraying chemical by air, but as demand increases the rules = will be forced to change, I think.  Regardless the market is there = which will benefit the experimental aviation sector.  Built on = farm, used on farm, even if only to spray plant deficiencies and = fungicide , the market is there.
      =   Hopefully it will all happen, but first a redrive.
Neil.

-----Original = Message-----
From: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: = Friday, October 15, 2021 8:22 AM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: [FlyRotary] Planetary re-drive?

Who is making a 13b fit 3:1 planetary now-a-days? That is = since I can=E2=80=99t get a Mistral unit! Need for a 20b.
M

--
Homepage: = http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and = UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html<= br class=3D"">

--
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html<= u class=3D"">

--
Regards Andrew Martin Martin Ag

= --Apple-Mail=_9C826A69-B386-4CB9-ACA9-B0CED28A3649--