X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=RZTu9Glv c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=CfecRKAa8pSyDWxVZQpcLA==:117 a=nTHF0DUjJn0A:10 a=hrdC1p5twJAA:10 a=r77TgQKjGQsHNAKrUKIA:9 a=UKPAHat8AAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=o1OHuDzbAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=jThZ7_-JAAAA:8 a=-X4jIWrn4UezsIXYGj4A:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=Qa1je4BO31QA:10 a=gvSQh4r-fQ0A:10 a=4PR2P7QzAAAA:8 a=S_LwOBHRYqQa7MnVeFcA:9 a=p8aDpTeeiteIPGv2:21 a=frz4AuCg-hUA:10 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=Fc6xXSS-RxGHxrvp76Qp:22 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=5YQ6H4ZxyGn-KoBYtt8s:22 a=grOzbf7U_OpcSX4AJOnl:22 a=NVbvhy2gKIdozzgvQOKv:22 a=4dqwQCo7Po2mVW515mGf:22 From: "Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net" Received: from sonic307-56.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([66.163.190.31] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.14) with ESMTPS id 406889 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 23 Jun 2020 08:48:45 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=66.163.190.31; envelope-from=finn.lassen@verizon.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=verizon.net; s=a2048; t=1592916507; bh=8Yxfks9b9S8gjKVGiM5NrXNTKtJGQUwuSfWELtefgXE=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From:Subject; b=OMojww9PyeqK8eqcDggDFI97hJfndjWYhQKVLIo9mJBTMj4JWA8rvjzfwe35jwQv2mrvw6YC9kDeiXgH3dUp+N+UTKKN4wRcP1s2+xuS29oXy/ygkrmNfipZQ+UDT+T42Le8VLFz+wYdq2O/YYAVHwKYBhYil9bQxBqlb17Mf6FR0L3aIA3OGSylltvJMffaB71fp+eDwm3g87zVyLRxoviCYyHvJAqzplD2sNcAQgR8B7HiDm+DWxmBYoK/dJtMO+fB1EdGDPtDhrth0el7YWTB5ubim6x/C18lizrfiT2ab2iqysByK0uuWBGqUJ/0iDir0Sb9PW/sEMmuAccWoQ== X-YMail-OSG: abhY_4kVM1lk._qOJk1cxH3WM7EqRxqaaWN.gqrPxXANzOsJ6.0PLTyFY_Uq8Q5 Tlk6LbOQmOxZ1Y3rlwSYDzOinEjBInyvjvp4rP0zEQ7KmvN7LUVKtJg1alNw2dZNokiNKTzhqRWo OHZqcGY.Gudsgkd01UGD2iLy4mTxBhtpbh9Gzl5y0vUyKV4.aO34h_0wrHhKBskEiqhEcdLFQCP5 djpdRuSrS_FuPcqJqCyWytUsOxKxbxgw1VF9Z5Jplv9EV7qZvzQyERwKeGAXPPLgjoAEgQKTviDJ LIePMPjXzLYfe5wev2LXj.0ifUiXZRLw8hehQdlbfKmzAfkY_ADbu5TBcbaTaYSLaIJM8_z6XjE1 BExLQQWnJHV5SuYZYwsb_oWX9K47AVChKQ.qsIlvpSDDngh6jCAFi1vCScjVx1b8p0V7pkHxCy5Y ZLWUaB3c04FME06oaUcjBTaQIH.5gVu57Eq6vxkoaUXx0US91eqQ8QxVXJu3DF.cFe_4USWocNWl eSojFWEgPSxVq0rL.if2EF_GRx4MBvcjrWxZ5V_6NMFFC9uYiR0un6.bJXQwQAWoHCEEVIi2U6C_ 2S.K.s9xvM6fnfXhb02dSD3MPqEnX81x8.tTdbhUSBSgoMfsx9dRKbQc5zmJ7nYrrTAtNuJD9s45 JZJBy3ElDMEIvUKgnrO5uQSHfazEJSyfze39bD_B.nfsk6lyoVBZkes3RWo0CpmEr1I7rRDox2qH IXv3lR8uhlwomgy.b6hOlH47oFRdbrHrLPwngfJcueOyWKt9iqk.0mIlLID4IYBJ417CSsVZf_BO LF0dcdL4tbZaHpff_h.21rqkfSHrlPI2ilHN402sWBwNWNrJozDD6glcIAr1cY4N1AM.LAyV.z.4 25WJvpyTyUquQNdndgVKu24VBn3uJxm_dmXVIM88QvvLE0ciKOWsHiDUl28QRIWTuKH9OjGxi3_k Ge23bRqBmGefVg_LebO8PELIA5t9EwHemo.80N7JJRoVENeiOaBiltU3R2gA9laegfd.v7fYmtZs eU3TtFO85FHXeQU5dYYADqMw8khTn2S1hHM7csLT4QyA1XG6tskkek8.t_qiStZNsBdX1jS8YlEp JOH_IurHLHP9DHenA91mGsnx7rK7XK67LxxiWixixbLjAIHqw.S1utaLbzAN9_euoSHCd2ybZX9f 5jxo9C_q9uAZMrKzksM_e_TMeu_AHg6nTggQUPwneSYwekrl57.1UJfuqEVaiinQmJLQyCGEM7F9 pUpvuY3jNHp1RQIfRrMIuwB53_LaSu10VLJltAFDWaytfTt2O4NBEqGaq5b87HDe5xmBVWvYBwKi BygXoznxANrlZEljPCQQD0XgPuuMxshcN53y12zE9P5arm16V7Po5RHSNNs7AWoSYdU55CTJ69EV JkVsodzV2 Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic307.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Tue, 23 Jun 2020 12:48:27 +0000 Received: by smtp403.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (VZM Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 9eef3e52c9b29d0ded0b9c0611b1ebe7; Tue, 23 Jun 2020 12:48:27 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: EC3 hardware notes To: Rotary motors in aircraft References: Message-ID: <1957b508-3fc3-af3a-d735-ddfdd6925dad@verizon.net> Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2020 08:48:24 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------5758A6B003C683B89DEBC528" Content-Language: en-US X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.16138 hermes_aol Apache-HttpAsyncClient/4.1.4 (Java/11.0.7) Content-Length: 14320 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------5758A6B003C683B89DEBC528 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Probably because the EC3 already have a 1K resistor on the board to ground. So with the 18K in series you have a 18:1 attenuation. I questioned Tracy about adding the 1K resistor (in addition to the two zeners) but he told me to do it. That's now 500 ohms across the output from the CAS sensor. There's already a pretty elaborate signal conditioning circuit on the EC3 board. I guess in the end it's all about getting a reliable clean timing signal to the CPU interrupt input. I suspect the CAS output voltage varies significantly with RPM. Undoubtedly there are many different circuits that could accomplish that. Some better than others for specific non-factory installations. Finn On 6/23/2020 7:16 AM, Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net wrote: > Dennis H. and I used that circuit with the EC2. It’s external in the > wiring near the EC2 connector. It’s not compatible with the EC3. > Engine would not start. > > Bobby > > Sent from my iPad > > > On Jun 22, 2020, at 9:00 PM, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com > wrote: > > > > I had this circuit from somewhere > > > > > > Steve Izett > > > >> On 23 Jun 2020, at 9:22 am, Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net > wrote: > >> > >> Just for the record. > >> > >> The 1K resistor and the two 2.7V zener diodes are the CAS input > clamping circuit. > >> > >> The rest is for redundant +5V to control panel (mixture voltage > being the critical one). > >> Vcc3 is J2 pin1 (+5V to control panel). > >> I just used BAX16 diodes because I had them. Any 100mA (16V reverse > voltage or more) diode will do. > >> LM78L05 flat side down. Left pin is output. Center pin is ground > and right pin is input. > >> > >> > >> If you want to secure components against vibration make sure you > use Natural Cure Sealant (non -acidic)! > >> I'm using Dowsil 737 RTV sealant. > >> The auto parts store RTV is acidic and you don't want your circuit > board damaged (etched) by that. > >> > >> Finn > >> > >>> On 6/17/2020 6:57 PM, Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net > wrote: > >>> In addition to the CAS input clamping circuit, Tracy also > recommends shorting pins 1 and 3 of D18. The voltage drop across the > diode to the PCM module causes slightly lower mixture and program > voltage than the software was programmed for. > >>> > >>> However, if you are powering A and B controllers separately (e.g. > separate fuses or busses), I have a better idea. > >>> 1) Remove the D18 diodes (just below C45 which they feed). > >>> 2) Add a LM78L05 (or similar) voltage regulator. After each (A and > B) of the power (L1 and L2) input coils (+ on the big C20 and C21 > capacitors) feed the input of the LM78L05 with a diode. Output of it > goes to J2 pin 2 (or + on C45). > >>> > >>> Same principle as powering the PCM from either of the 5V > regulators on the EC3 board, but the 0.7V diode drop now happens > before the regulator, not after the 5V. > >>> > >>> CAS input clamping circuit: > >>> 1) A 1K resistor between J2-5 and J2-15 (CAS input and ground). > >>> 2) Two 2.7V zener diodes in series, arrows or striped ends > (anodes) connected together. The non-striped ends (cathodes) to J2-5 > and J2-15 respectively (CAS input and ground). (Basically in parallel > with the 1K resistor). If you got the polarity of the zener diodes > correct you should see the signal from the CAS sensor clamped to no > more than 0.7 + 2.7 = +-3.4 volts on an oscilloscope. > >>> > >>> I now have two bad chips (does not respond to reading or > programming attempts -- do "work" in the EC3). The chip pins used to > program the chip go to the Mode switch on the PCM. J2 pins 22 and 24. > One might consider protection diodes for those pins. Oddly the pins > continue working for Mode switch input, just not for re-programming > the chip. > >>> > >>> The EC3 board was designed for in-circuit chip re-programming (set > mode switch to zero or disconnect J2). Vpp/MasterClear are on J2 pin > 11 (for A) and pin 1 (for B). PGC on pin 22 and PGD on pin 24. > However, Tracy found that the combined capacitance of the programming > pins of two chips made in circuit programming unreliable. I wonder if > it might work if one could control the speed with which it > communicates with the chip? > >>> > >>> Finn > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > >>> Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > >>> > >> > >> > > > > -- > > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com > > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > > *Disclaimer* > > The information contained in this communication from the sender is > confidential. It is intended solely for use by the recipient and > others authorized to receive it. If you are not the recipient, you are > hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or taking > action in relation of the contents of this information is strictly > prohibited and may be unlawful. > > This email has been scanned for viruses and malware, and may have been > automatically archived by *Mimecast Ltd*, an innovator in Software as > a Service (SaaS) for business. Providing a *safer* and *more useful* > place for your human generated data. Specializing in; Security, > archiving and compliance. To find out more Click Here > . > --------------5758A6B003C683B89DEBC528 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Probably because the EC3 already have a 1K resistor on the board to ground. So with the 18K in series you have a 18:1 attenuation.
I questioned Tracy about adding the 1K resistor (in addition to the two zeners) but he told me to do it. That's now 500 ohms across the output from the CAS sensor.

There's already a pretty elaborate signal conditioning circuit on the EC3 board.

I guess in the end it's all about getting a reliable clean timing signal to the CPU interrupt input. I suspect the CAS output voltage varies significantly with RPM.

Undoubtedly there are many different circuits that could accomplish that. Some better than others for specific non-factory installations.

Finn

On 6/23/2020 7:16 AM, Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net wrote:
Dennis H. and I used that circuit with the EC2. It’s external in the wiring near the EC2 connector. It’s not compatible with the EC3. Engine would not start.

Bobby

Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 22, 2020, at 9:00 PM, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
>
> I had this circuit from somewhere
> <Renesis CAS Zener Circuit.pdf>
>
> Steve Izett
>
>> On 23 Jun 2020, at 9:22 am, Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
>>
>> Just for the record.
>> <ommkelgblomchfkc.jpg>
>> The 1K resistor and the two 2.7V zener diodes are the CAS input clamping circuit.
>>
>> The rest is for redundant +5V to control panel (mixture voltage being the critical one).
>> Vcc3 is J2 pin1 (+5V to control panel).
>> I just used BAX16 diodes because I had them. Any 100mA (16V reverse voltage or more) diode will do.
>> LM78L05 flat side down. Left pin is output. Center pin is ground and right pin is input.
>>
>> <jjfkkebmdbnhneko.jpg>
>> If you want to secure components against vibration make sure you use Natural Cure Sealant (non -acidic)!
>> I'm using Dowsil 737 RTV sealant.
>> The auto parts store RTV is acidic and you don't want your circuit board damaged (etched) by that.
>>
>> Finn
>>
>>> On 6/17/2020 6:57 PM, Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net wrote:
>>> In addition to the CAS input clamping circuit, Tracy also recommends shorting pins 1 and 3 of D18. The voltage drop across the diode to the PCM module causes slightly lower mixture and program voltage than the software was programmed for.
>>>
>>> However, if you are powering A and B controllers separately (e.g. separate fuses or busses), I have a better idea.
>>> 1) Remove the D18 diodes (just below C45 which they feed).
>>> 2) Add a LM78L05 (or similar) voltage regulator. After each (A and B) of the power (L1 and L2) input coils (+ on the big C20 and C21 capacitors) feed the input of the LM78L05 with a diode. Output of it goes to J2 pin 2 (or + on C45).
>>>
>>> Same principle as powering the PCM from either of the 5V regulators on the EC3 board, but the 0.7V diode drop now happens before the regulator, not after the 5V.
>>>
>>> CAS input clamping circuit:
>>> 1) A 1K resistor between J2-5 and J2-15 (CAS input and ground).
>>> 2) Two 2.7V zener diodes in series, arrows or striped ends (anodes) connected together. The non-striped ends (cathodes) to J2-5 and J2-15 respectively (CAS input and ground). (Basically in parallel with the 1K resistor). If you got the polarity of the zener diodes correct you should see the signal from the CAS sensor clamped to no more than 0.7 + 2.7 = +-3.4 volts on an oscilloscope.
>>>
>>> I now have two bad chips (does not respond to reading or programming attempts -- do "work" in the EC3). The chip pins used to program the chip go to the Mode switch on the PCM. J2 pins 22 and 24. One might consider protection diodes for those pins. Oddly the pins continue working for Mode switch input, just not for re-programming the chip.
>>>
>>> The EC3 board was designed for in-circuit chip re-programming (set mode switch to zero or disconnect J2). Vpp/MasterClear are on J2 pin 11 (for A) and pin 1 (for B). PGC on pin 22 and PGD on pin 24. However, Tracy found that the combined capacitance of the programming pins of two chips made in circuit programming unreliable. I wonder if it might work if one could control the speed with which it communicates with the chip?
>>>
>>> Finn
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/
>>> Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
>>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com
> Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html


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