From: "Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
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Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: SpeedUino
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2020 16:00:31 +0800
References: <list-401382@logan.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
In-Reply-To: <list-401382@logan.com>
Message-Id: <800259DA-54B5-4F65-A4A5-DDDB795E8CEE@gmail.com>

Thanks Steve
So a couple of the renesis yellow injectors to replace the red primaries =
might give us the headroom on those primaries.

Just wondering if others using the 4 port injectors have had the same =
issue. Tracy, specifically mentions this configuration, so someone must =
have been using it.
My troubled mind only gets more troubled when I think that our fuel rail =
is at 50 psi, which I thought might be higher than others maybe using =
and flowing more fuel.

Steve Izett

> On 22 Jun 2020, at 1:56 pm, Steven W. Boese SBoese@uwyo.edu =
<flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
>=20
> Steve,
>=20
> Next time I run my test stand Renesis, I can specifically look for any =
change in BSFC just above and below staging MAP.  That should give an =
indication of the effect of fuel mixing in both inlets as opposed to =
fuel mixing in just the primary inlet.
>=20
> If you are encountering primary injector saturation and cannot adjust =
the staging threshold to a lower MAP, changing to primary injectors with =
a larger flow rate would seem to be your only option other than =
increasing the prop pitch to operate with lower RPM.  Obtaining =
satisfactory tuning with saturated injectors would be unlikely, it seems =
to me.  Having the primary and secondary injectors of the same flow =
rating would not be necessary.
>=20
> Steve Boese  =20
>=20
> From: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> on =
behalf of Stephen Izett =
stephen.izett@gmail.com<flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
> Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2020 8:39 AM
> To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: SpeedUino
> =20
> Hi Steve Boese or other cleverer people than I.
>=20
> Can you explain or point me to info regarding intake port and injector =
staging.
> In the Renesis engines as an example, the various ports have valves =
(excepting the primaries) and injectors.
> Mazda seems to have done magic to create an intake system that =
supports a usable torque curve over a significant range.
> Now I take it that it would be a mistake to turn on injectors while =
that port was closed.
> But do  they open a port, lets say the secondaries in a 4 port rotary =
but not switch on the injectors?
> Now that=E2=80=99s what we are doing with our EC=E2=80=99s, Tracy has =
them on Primaries all the way up to 20=E2=80=9D MAP before the secondary =
injectors turn on.
> So because most of us have removed any valve (open all the time as =
we=E2=80=99re not interested in low rpm) we have a Primary runner with =
fuel being mixed,
> but a Secondary runner without fuel being mixed.
> So during the intake =E2=80=9Cstroke/rotational movement=E2=80=9D the =
two masses of air from either side of the rotor, through seperate ports =
must mix to ideally create an even air/fuel mixture.
> Wouldn=E2=80=99t it make sense to have fuel being mixed in that =
secondary runner?
>=20
> It seems to me that smaller capacity injectors may provide better =
atomisation for lower end engine performance/economy/emissions, =
particularly when only the primary runners were active.
>=20
> I=E2=80=99m also still wondering, should I consider replacing the =
small Primary Injectors that have saturated at times with larger =
injectors making 4 equal injectors?
>=20
> Thanks for all the help.
>=20
> Steve Izett
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> > On 19 Jun 2020, at 11:10 am, Steven W. Boese SBoese@uwyo.edu =
<flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
> >=20
> > I have a SpeedUino running a 13B test engine.  That system is =
already set up with a throttle body position input which is not used in =
the recent version I have.  A few code changes allows a potentiometer to =
be used through that input for manual mixture control.  I also found it =
not particularly difficult to come up with a dual wheel CAS file to be =
used with the Ardustim signal generator to simulate the 13B CAS for =
testing.
> >=20
> > Steve Boese
> >=20
> > On Jun 18, 2020, at 6:36 PM, Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net =
<flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
> >=20
> >> =E2=97=86 This message was sent from a non-UWYO address. Please =
exercise caution when clicking links or opening attachments from =
external sources.
> >>=20
> >> Actually Tracy now recommends the SpeedUino boards and using =
TunerStudio (there is a free version) as the modern solution.
> >> Yes, you'll have to do a bit of work if you want redundancy and =
manual mixture control.
> >> I see them on eBay for about $150 each. Add relays to switch =
between the outputs of the boards for redundancy.
> >> A bit of cooperative work on the open source SpeedUino code and you =
could have manual mixture control, if not already done by now.
> >> So it doesn't really doesn't have to be all that expensive. Maybe =
$400 for the hardware. Naturally, if you want an of-the-shelf solution =
and expect hand holding and support, you most likely have to pay for it.
> >>=20
> >> So why did I chose a RWS EC3 for the RV-4 I'm building in spite of =
Tracy's recommendation?
> >> The RV-3B I bought and have been flying has RWS EC2 and EM2, so I'm =
familiar with the operation of it.
> >> And I guess I was too lazy to get into SpeedUino and learn that. =
Just seemed easier to install an EC3 and go fly. Would have worked too, =
if I hadn't listened to the warnings about using the stock Renesis =
ignition coils and gone and bought LS2 coils (D585). Also in the back of =
my mind was the track record of Tracy's controllers. I never really had =
a problem with them. In my mind they were reliable and proven. I guess =
one tends towards what one is familiar with. I should say that I still =
kind of enjoy tinkering with software and hardware. There is a certain =
satisfaction in overcoming obstacles and making things work, although it =
can bevery time consuming.
> >>=20
> >> I think we can draw a parallel to the mindset it takes to make your =
engine installation from scratch and just install a Lycoming.=20
> >>=20
> >> So, with the data I now have, I think I would recommend what Tracy =
recommends for any new installations and only get spares for working =
EC2/3 installations. If I understand it right, there is wide support for =
SpeedUino out there.
> >>=20
> >> Finn
> >>=20
> >>=20
> >> On 6/18/2020 6:06 PM, 12348ung@gmail.com wrote:
> >>> Re Tracy ECM.
> >>>                              I note all the grief that is going =
back and forward and sympathise with you all.  I had trouble with mine =
way back, sent it back to Tracy and it took 3 months before I saw it =
again.  Decided then that this was not a good way to go as Tracy was =
semi retired then already.  Tracy to me was absolutely brilliant in what =
he did, but that was 40 years ago??  So I bought a fueltech unit which =
is current technology but very dear compared to Tracy=E2=80=99s ECM.  I =
have not regretted this purchase.  The engine log can be emailed for =
support and within 24 hours you are fixed up.  Then I am totally =
computer illiterate, so unable to fix anything like that myself, so I =
pay as usual. =20
> >>> Neil.
> >>> =20
> >>> From: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>=20
> >>> Sent: Friday, June 19, 2020 2:10 AM
> >>> To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
> >>> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: EC3 software for Renesis RX-8/LS2 coils =
fixed and uploaded
> >>> =20
> >>> Hi Bobby,
> >>>=20
> >>> Actually Tracy does have a few new EC3 boards. I didn't ask how =
many.
> >>>=20
> >>> The hot question really is how big is the demand (quantity)?
> >>>=20
> >>> I probably have enough data from him (schematics, parts lists, PCB =
layout) to get a production run done.
> >>>=20
> >>> Tracy is serious about having retired. I was really, really lucky =
to get his help.
> >>>=20
> >>> I think a big reason for his decision to retire is to have time to =
enjoy life. I think the majority of his time before his retirement was =
spent on support (phone, emails).
> >>>=20
> >>> He really has no economic incentive to come out of retirement.
> >>>=20
> >>> So while we could get a production run done, I doubt anyone would =
be willing to spend time on support -- certainly not for new =
installations. Also the variety of engines, accessories and specialized =
programming for some installations would make it a nightmare to program =
the chips. Solution for that would probably be to read the working chips =
for your installation and then program the new chips with that, but then =
some would not get the latest features (closed loop, auto program using =
EC3 w/o EM).
> >>>=20
> >>> I thought I might take it on, but having second thoughts :)
> >>>=20
> >>> Will probably be a few days before I'm ready to roll the fuselage =
out of the hangar and do engine runs.
> >>>=20
> >>> Finn
> >>>=20
> >>> On 6/18/2020 10:18 AM, Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net wrote:
> >>> Thanks Finn. I downloaded the files and notes. Once you are =
confident the hardware and software works properly we might consider a =
onetime production run of EC3=E2=80=99s for existing EC2/3 owners. I =
would like to have a tested spare available. It would likely take =
Tracy=E2=80=99s involvement to facilitate the board build or at least =
provided the suppler information and proper Rev number.
> >>> =20
> >>> I really appreciate the work you, Steve Izett and Steve B. are =
doing.
> >>> =20
> >>> Bobby
> >>> =20
> >>> From: Rotary motors in aircraft =
[mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]=20
> >>> Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2020 6:11 PM
> >>> To: Rotary motors in aircraft
> >>> Subject: [FlyRotary] EC3 software for Renesis RX-8/LS2 coils fixed =
and uploaded
> >>> =20
> >>> Here it is:
> >>> =
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1mVzPOxUwcGUlPizxnRF40nUyKBzfT4DC?u=
sp=3Dsharing
> >>> It's EC3closedloop.zip.
> >>>=20
> >>> You may want to grab it now in case Google decides to close my =
account :)
> >>>=20
> >>> You can program the 18F452 chips directly using the EC3CL8.HEX =
file, or open EC3ClosedLoop.mcp in MPLAB IDE, compile and program. This =
is for RX-8 (EC3 engine type A8), LS2 coils (D585), large secondary =
injectors, default is wide band O2 sensor.
> >>>=20
> >>> Turns out Tracy has never programmed or delivered an EC3 for =
Renesis with LS2 coils.
> >>> Software was missing code to load LS2 coils dwell time.
> >>>=20
> >>> I added Steve's code for configuration bits so don't have to =
remember what to set them to when programming.
> >>> I set all protection bits to zero to avoid any chip reprogramming =
troubles, but you could change to:
> >>>=20
> >>>=20
> >>> ; CONFIG6L
> >>>   CONFIG  WRT0 =3D ON             ; Write Protection bit (Block 0 =
(000200-001FFFh) write protected)
> >>> Finn
> >>>=20
> >>> ENG            EQU    0xA8      ;PUT ENGINE TYPE CODE HERE AND =
CHECK **** ALL **** FLAGS BELOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! =20
> >>>=20
> >>> N109TC        EQU 0x00    ;N109TC USES A DIFFERENT assignment of =
coil drivers  CLEAR for ALL except N109TC !!!!! and KERMIT unit   20B =
controllers
> >>>=20
> >>> DIAG        EQU 0x00        ;DIAG =3D=3D1 ALLOWS DIAGNOSTIC USE OF =
02H&L
> >>>=20
> >>> ;  *****************     CHECK ALL FLAGS BEFORE PROGRAM MING CHIPS =
 !!!!!   **************************************************
> >>>=20
> >>> ;   ***************    DWELL TIME FLAGS   *SET ONLY ONE*      =
***********************************************
> >>>=20
> >>> RX8COIL        EQU    0x00        ;1=3D 2.6MS DWELL TIME  (RX-8 =
COIL)
> >>> RX7COIL        EQU 0x00        ;1=3D 3.5MS DWELL TIME USED   (also =
used for A7 2007 option)=20
> >>> LS1COIL        EQU    0x00        ;1=3D 4.3 MS DWELL USED=20
> >>> HONDACOIL    EQU 0x00        ;1=3D 1.7 MS DWELL            (A =
REALLY TINY COIL)
> >>> LS2COIL        EQU    0x01        ;1=3D 4.0 MS DWELL       =20
> >>>=20
> >>>  =20
> >>> TURBO        EQU    0x00        ;0 =3D NA, 1 =3D TURBO VERSION     =
(BIT 0 SET IN ECINFO IF TRUE)
> >>> BFACTOR        EQU    D'20'        ;BOOST RETARD FOR IGNITION =
TIMING  lower value =3D more boost retard (25 IS USED FOR MOST ROTARY 20 =
on 03-05-09,
> >>> LGSEC        EQU    0x01        ;0 =3D PRI & SEC INJECTORS SAME =
SIZE  1 =3D LARGER SECONDARY INJECTORS (RENESIS 4 port)
> >>> WIDEBAND    EQU 0x01        ;0 =3D NARROWBAND O2 SENSOR IN USE, 1 =
=3D WIDEBAND SENSOR IN USE.
> >>> TEMPSENSOR    EQU    0x00        ;0 =3D THERMISTOR, 1 =3D LM34
> >>> MAPSENSOR    EQU    0x00        ;0 =3D MPX4250 SENSOR, 1 =3D =
MPX4115 (EARLIER VERSION OF EC2 ONLY)
> >>> BUSENSOR    EQU    0x00        ;0 =3D NO BACKUP SENSOR, 1 =3D =
BACKUP INSTALLED (0xA8,0xA9,AB,AD,B1,B2,B4 0-200 ENGINE ONLY)
> >>> BREW        EQU    0x00        ;0 =3D SET TO 1 FOR 3RD GEN 13BREW =
ENGINES :  COMPENSATES FOR 5 DEG EARLIER 3RD GEN TIMING OF CAS
> >>> ONEINJ        EQU    0x00        ;0 =3D NORMAL 2 INJECTOR PER =
ROTOR  1 =3D 1 INJ PER ROTOR  (NOT RECOMMENDED)
> >>> CONT        EQU    0x00        ;0 =3D NORMAL 0xA9 ENGINE, 1 =3D =
CONTINENTAL/Lyc VARIENT (also sets bu at 18 geg before primary)
> >>> EMT            EQU    0x00        ;0 =3D A9 W/ TRIG @ 6 DEG ATDC   =
1 =3D TDC @ TOOTH 11 (ELECTROMOTIVE TIMING SPEC) also sets BU at 180 deg
> >>> A72007        EQU    0x00        ;0 =3D PRE 2005 SUBE EJ25   1 =3D =
2005 OR LATER EJ25 W/ RX-8 TYPE CAS         =20
> >>> WTF         EQU 0x00        ;0 =3D normal version  1 =3D BRAT  - =
AKA - WhatTheFuck project version with transmission control functions    =
   =20
> >>>=20
> >>> TBINJ        EQU    0x00        ;1=3D THROTTLE BODY INJECTION FLAG=20=

> >>> LS2_60_2    EQU    0x00        ;1=3D LS2 ENGINE EQUIPPED W/60-2 =
TOOTH TRIGGER WHEEL  (USE ENG CODE 0xAB)
> >>> =20
> >>>=20
> >>> Disclaimer
> >>>=20
> >>> The information contained in this communication from the sender is =
confidential. It is intended solely for use by the recipient and others =
authorized to receive it. If you are not the recipient, you are hereby =
notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or taking action in =
relation of the contents of this information is strictly prohibited and =
may be unlawful.
> >>>=20
> >>> This email has been scanned for viruses and malware, and may have =
been automatically archived by Mimecast Ltd, an innovator in Software as =
a Service (SaaS) for business. Providing a safer and more useful place =
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>=20
>=20
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