X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=H7ylPNQi c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=CW2nhIgkCAEtI0SiXaqeIA==:117 a=jpOVt7BSZ2e4Z31A5e1TngXxSK0=:19 a=oexKYjalfGEA:10 a=uDGLad88WTgA:10 a=UKPAHat8AAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=HZJGGiqLAAAA:8 a=FCQR9JSIp-5XCB4kYNEA:9 a=p6jsVgQML4kiSJ6z:21 a=QY5v0zfC7gHVbn_o:21 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=mLMlqgSzWLE1IlO2:21 a=vciBBLwUbWJxbLo-:21 a=iZ1Mg_HNClvgVxAQ:21 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=Fc6xXSS-RxGHxrvp76Qp:22 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 From: "Samuel Hodges samueln462wp@att.net" Received: from sonic309-16.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com ([74.6.129.126] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.12) with ESMTPS id 12416499 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 05 Apr 2019 09:47:37 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=74.6.129.126; envelope-from=samueln462wp@att.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=att.net; s=s1024; t=1554472040; bh=iMIi2nW1mkPRWMemkB6D6m2SgZXkcEf8JcymaWCPKbg=; h=Date:From:To:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Subject; b=gc/MTqIA2AZ8TnsDlPRfuIroW8ohEOupeE2/4wzsZGXt4vUsvTSywnaMWFxfNAHNWuZ6clUxPbSJWgsCarOd/6/8zINF4x6r70vHkxrnhf87ZOdXC+HzCG49J+4Oe3Cyw6xvo7AXfZygSd9J/aBRM5aBsvJTlo8j9gS9b9qSaeU= X-YMail-OSG: 7wjKiCMVM1kOKVaqNOlEFpzeJuCWPhK02de9wfuvAiMc6hF8p3Dg3x3wfLehI3I IKLnQxRNCiQYriJ.trMYxCVHUdQJD8F1SroKwS0U3pYD_jgOmK8uK24QvPEPKdmp0TBGLfCeQfEJ LxaB6DXtXujtdgz0FORmv2JAwk9MTuEocmKiably0fO.aJJSI3nKbKIWYId4CGUp1lh56aPHqmA1 GtVQahqwoqoyhomeLyrZzY6VdWEAMNVaXtpGaRZSJeZXqf4G7v367w3S_acTQxtyHOvCxJhHyvuw X15kG2YGWYEK_6HQQkCaczbQBEf6Yy5z2BA48M0vy7i7A5REb60q5agjFsPSEpH146xbDh8Vi75o 3TmHEGAw9mwMVEGsWTC0YJaRxpU0A95VjhYz8.dhwfGRh3PQq4AhJ1jjECFqo5BGOReW0jzzSL4B nSu1YqJ7lBiTRyIsfK5lj5Jmun_CMo64TCrjhf6yshK74P.MUseUDnBJKcD_wGOTMPCzUfYImBED 8Fym706QLGHl710G4R1sIAtGoZwmS6APGAD4tA3El7w3yK3gw7cPjWiT6f9yy6GjFD_o50Bf9Jbn gxPM6bx.l2Qm8nasAKTq3U_ewAuPVSZYn732VNYhL0qVLZM5gzjw68KhCsVwkvWVA_qX_bSiKUB_ cE5mpI5_CXMS13yuIUtWxHXztsxQ7haY6kbSgvtNwVRZZFqxEN3k0B0n0I8YaTy81g6sQeu81r7a 1VtnDjqHSnUGtKu0vqdVEy2YOsGBASMRPcyin23IM5LmLp8lDLbw3RQlU4esHcVUR01LHzfJaQj7 7aTRZYXEcAxiimd2pR6L8M_jEZJxliqOqsRRNFY0pts5.rgfVBQYb8Hd5rvwHeCKcQwCuTm_0474 ln0tZ9sWnZTTA4ew5Zqpbh4qlIec59i3RuCNMytBEr6IgEuK4SzQmxCOdPwdRmdwUUxRSJVNRD9Z LN5jRTrGZe9dvN70MHu0Un969HsGwNw3tE2wUVTSpx4pfs0w_OIpFISlsFFvoYsFY8ITN4_741OS EGaxUia2u8vbP4QUqNxwSkWeEjKOz1Q7O9w-- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic309.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Fri, 5 Apr 2019 13:47:20 +0000 Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2019 13:47:15 +0000 (UTC) To: "Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net" Message-ID: <549727356.17159917.1554472035873@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Electric constant speed props MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_17159916_952074699.1554472035870" X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.13212 YMailNorrin Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/64.0.3282.140 Safari/537.36 Edge/18.17763 Content-Length: 16287 ------=_Part_17159916_952074699.1554472035870 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =C2=A0Went to Sun n Fun and talked to a Aeromaster representative to colle= ct information and data on their Electric constant speed prop combinations.= After waiting a little while a representative of the company approached as= asked what he can do for me. I replied that I am extremely interested in t= heir design and would like further information. I was asked about my aircra= ft engine installation, I explained to him about the Rotary and what my RPM= requirements would be. His response went something like this " Do you know= how much this cost? it will probably double the cost of your installation/= plane" I immediately took this as an insult and replied " you know nothing = of me, my finances, nor my plane" as I walked past him I padded him on the = arm and said " keep your freakin prop, you just saved me a lot of money" bu= t I didn't say freakin. One thing I did find out is that it would be around= 26lbs, well worth the trip, wouldn't you agree? Sam =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 On Tuesday, April 2, 2019, 07:27:12 PM EDT, Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qns= i.net wrote: =20 =20 =20 Climb at 6800/ 2100 rpm=C2=A0 Correction 6000/ 2100 rpm.=C2=A0 Bobby=C2=A0 Sent from my iPhone On Apr 2, 2019, at 5:46 PM, Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net wrote: Bill, Most takeoffs have been at 7000/2400 rpm with MP between 34-38=E2=80=9D to = pattern.Climb at 6800/ 2100 rpm=C2=A0 Cruise at 5200/ 1824 or 4800/ 1624 rpm depending on my desired fuel burn an= d airspeed. =C2=A0Most cross country flight are at 28-30=E2=80=9D MP and wi= th F/A 15.8. Or 13.5 for higher MP.=C2=A0 Bobby Sent from my iPhone On Apr 2, 2019, at 5:13 PM, William Jepson wrjjrs@gmail.com wrote: Bobby, You push it fairly hard with your supercharged engine too. What crui= se RPM are you running? P.Sport always tried to tune for lower RPMS and hig= her power to avoid the torsional vibration problems. With boost you can mak= e more power at lower RPMs which is a plus in this case.=C2=A0The rotary is= tough, the engine will tolerate a lot, but the high revs for long periods = is what causes the need for attention to torsionals. BTW I moved and had to= take a break from my redrive efforts, but am getting back to it. Got some = good ideas today from Mark Hatch, Everett's son.=C2=A0Bill On Tue, Apr 2, 2019 at 2:02 PM Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net wrote: My MT weighs 42#=E2=80=99s. The hub is heavy, blades are light weigh. Gear = lashing appears to have increased a little over the first 500 hours. End pl= ay is about 5 thousandths with original snubber.=C2=A0 Bobby Sent from my iPad On Apr 2, 2019, at 3:48 PM, William Jepson wrjjrs@gmail.com wrote: Sam,I am working with some originators of Powersport. The weight of your bu= ild makes a big difference on the use of a constant speed. Also in the case= of the rotary the quality of your muffler! Sound levels really effect your= comfort on longer flights. Mufflers for rotaries are tough, I already have= 1 failed design to my (bad) credit. The original Powersport designs used t= he light weight and flexibility of a wood prop to their advantage. Those en= gines were tuned for max power at 6500 RPM. The reductions were about 1.85 = to 2.2:1. suitable for the lower power peak. Torsional vibration issues als= o favored a wood prop. How heavy is the electric Airmaster? MOST engines in= cluding the rotary are helped by a variable pitch prop. Whether the combina= tion is safe depends on the reduction drive, ratio, and weight of the prop = on the output shaft. Powersport's owners noted significant torsional vibrat= ion problems with every planetary gear set, (even their own custom made str= aight cut planetary). Their later stiff model internal ring gear reduction = gearbox put the resonances out of the normal range for the rotary. Prior to= that the only problem free build with a planetary was when they built a pe= ndulous damper system (like a big radial engine uses) which worked great bu= t was so expensive they figured they would never sell an engine. So if you = are running a planetary reduction you need to keep the weight down as much = as you can. Find out what the Airmaster weighs. The amount that it exceeds = your wood or carbon fixed blade prop is your risk factor. The advantage is = to use a low cruise rpm that takes advantage of the props flexibility. As a= thrust producing device it is better, there is no doubt. If it is very hea= vy though it may cause problems that aren't obvious as to origin. Torsional= problems may take hundreds of hours to develop, or something may break the= first week. Just be wary. Always keep track of things like changes in outp= ut shaft end play and backlash. You can make the change, and see excellent = results but go in with your eyes open. Lots of people will tell you this is= nervous nelly stuff, but the guys at P.S. probably had more hours running = and testing rotaries AT HIGH OUTPUT levels than anyone other than Mazda.Bil= l Jepson On Tue, Apr 2, 2019 at 6:34 AM Samuel Hodges samueln462wp@att.net wrote: =C2=A0Lately I have been considering an Airmaster electric constant speed p= rop to help achieve the rotaries true potential. I am asking for insight to= help me make this decision. I'm not sure if the benefits of a constant spe= ed out weight the cost, please help. SamRV-7ARenesis=C2=A0 =20 ------=_Part_17159916_952074699.1554472035870 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 Went= to Sun n Fun and talked to a Aeromaster representative to collect informat= ion and data on their Electric constant speed prop combinations. After wait= ing a little while a representative of the company approached as asked what= he can do for me. I replied that I am extremely interested in their design= and would like further information. I was asked about my aircraft engine i= nstallation, I explained to him about the Rotary and what my RPM requiremen= ts would be. His response went something like this " Do you know how much t= his cost? it will probably double the cost of your installation/plane" I im= mediately took this as an insult and replied " you know nothing of me, my f= inances, nor my plane" as I walked past him I padded him on the arm and sai= d " keep your freakin prop, you just saved me a lot of money" but I didn't = say freakin. One thing I did find out is that it would be around 26lbs, wel= l worth the trip, wouldn't you agree?

Sam     

=20
=20
On Tuesday, April 2, 2019, 07:27:12 PM EDT, Bobby J. Hu= ghes bhughes@qnsi.net <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:



Climb at 6800/ 2100 rpm 

Correction 6000/ 2100 rpm. 

Bobby 

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 2, 2019, at 5= :46 PM, Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net <flyrotary@lanc= aironline.net> wrote:

Bill,

Most takeoffs have been at 7000/2400 rp= m with MP between 34-38=E2=80=9D to pattern.
Climb at 6800/ 2100 = rpm 

Cruise at 5200/ 1824 or 4800/ 1624 rpm d= epending on my desired fuel burn and airspeed.  Most cross country fli= ght are at 28-30=E2=80=9D MP and with F/A 15.8. Or 13.5 for higher MP. = ;

Bobby

Sent from my iPhone
=
On Apr 2, 2019, at 5:13 PM, William Jepson wrjjrs@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Bobby, You push it fairly = hard with your supercharged engine too. What cruise RPM are you running? P.= Sport always tried to tune for lower RPMS and higher power to avoid the tor= sional vibration problems. With boost you can make more power at lower RPMs= which is a plus in this case.  The rotary is tough, the engine will tolerate a lot, but the high revs for = long periods is what causes the need for attention to torsionals. BTW I mov= ed and had to take a break from my redrive efforts, but am getting back to = it. Got some good ideas today from Mark Hatch, Everett's son. 
Bil= l

On Tue, Apr 2, 2019 at 2:02 PM Bobby J. Hu= ghes bhughes@qnsi.net <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>= ; wrote:

My MT weighs 42#=E2=80=99s. The hub is heavy, blades a= re light weigh. Gear lashing appears to have increased a little over the fi= rst 500 hours. End play is about 5 thousandths with original snubber. =

Bobby

Sent from my iPad

On Apr 2, 2019, at 3:48 PM, William Jepson wrjjrs@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
=
Sam,<= div>I am working with some originators of Powersport. The weight of your build mak= es a big difference on the use of a constant speed. Also in the case of the= rotary the quality of your muffler! Sound levels really effect your comfor= t on longer flights. Mufflers for rotaries are tough, I already have 1 fail= ed design to my (bad) credit. The original Powersport designs used the light weigh= t and flexibility of a wood prop to their advantage. Those engines were tun= ed for max power at 6500 RPM. The reductions were about 1.85 to 2.2:1. suit= able for the lower power peak. Torsional vibration issues also favored a wo= od prop. How heavy is the electric Airmaster? MOST engines including the rotary ar= e helped by a variable pitch prop. Whether the combination is safe depends = on the reduction drive, ratio, and weight of the prop on the output shaft. = Powersport's owners noted significant torsional vibration problems with every plan= etary gear set, (even their own custom made straight cut planetary). Their = later stiff model internal ring gear reduction gearbox put the resonances o= ut of the normal range for the rotary. Prior to that the only problem free = build with a planetary was when they built a pendulous damper system (like = a big radial engine uses) which worked great but was so expensive they figu= red they would never sell an engine. So if you are running a planetary redu= ction you need to keep the weight down as much as you can. Find out what th= e Airmaster weighs. The amount that it exceeds your wood or carbon fixed blade pro= p is your risk factor. The advantage is to use a low cruise rpm that takes = advantage of the props flexibility. As a thrust producing device it is bett= er, there is no doubt. If it is very heavy though it may cause problems tha= t aren't obvious as to origin. Torsional problems may take hundreds of hour= s to develop, or something may break the first week. Just be wary. Always k= eep track of things like changes in output shaft end play and backlash. You= can make the change, and see excellent results but go in with your eyes op= en. Lots of people will tell you this is nervous nelly stuff, but the guys = at P.S. probably had more hours running and testing rotaries AT HIGH OUTPUT= levels than anyone other than Mazda.
Bill Jepson

On Tue, Apr 2, 2019 at 6:34 AM Samuel Hodges samueln462wp@att.net <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
<= /div>
<= div class=3D"yiv1989994497gmail-m_-4421676901268201956gmail-m_7046104043976= 762484yahoo-style-wrap" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;f= ont-size:16px;">
 Lately I have been considering an Airmaster elec= tric constant speed prop to help achieve the rotaries true potential. I am = asking for insight to help me make this decision. I'm not sure if the benef= its of a constant speed out weight the cost, please help.

Sam
RV-7A
Renesis 
------=_Part_17159916_952074699.1554472035870--