X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=L4JfeKb8 c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=Io3XLIBld6c7WvdWTVA04w==:117 a=7ZeHUF5TpD32QnDE67vapA==:17 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=A-0mRrAPPO4A:10 a=smKx5t2vBNcA:10 a=r77TgQKjGQsHNAKrUKIA:9 a=3oc9M9_CAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=_6GpL_ENAAAA:8 a=Kjl1iRJDKeDPgm3kMg4A:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=4PR2P7QzAAAA:8 a=-HdJOdyeL0TqImumSFEA:9 a=V_WQCgqUVWJh72uC:21 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=4dqwQCo7Po2mVW515mGf:22 From: "Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com" Received: from mail-yw1-f44.google.com ([209.85.161.44] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.8) with ESMTPS id 11822866 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 30 Oct 2018 14:07:31 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.161.44; envelope-from=ceengland7@gmail.com Received: by mail-yw1-f44.google.com with SMTP id i185-v6so5298646ywa.12 for ; Tue, 30 Oct 2018 11:07:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-language; bh=VDcA+RS7/6SOlunKZS7zMNtO4SSr2dZ4xztvluLsJFk=; b=eGM9WWnE7CFgYP2ZMnIGz/wafYy+/554/85866vAWnr2jVAE080rZ8prHOljOKVFRD 1KsJT70qLbAu9/8j/UW+BVQSb6DhW9+7z2LM/zMkZCQ42f2xbjTVg6DnumIxGI5txVzu iScup3AhSh38EAd0DteWd0djwa3Qx9GptuClmt6V42uLrjDBOnFe7oQflWLJkRtHtrt3 FVf+xokcrStjlGgc3/AaXhLh4GhgE1GvwDa0FFagtp19wyEaS7mQXQuTYF1M7296FgFj V9BVtWGcLxMqN6VGXcbRF5a6J9SPXEQbh+L9+Iq+WlZFk5hMEn81EBIkkUOEL2NVaZA8 6Tog== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language; bh=VDcA+RS7/6SOlunKZS7zMNtO4SSr2dZ4xztvluLsJFk=; b=RBFR+8inC7kMIRw4J1dXFVcWOZwSA++anny/xbbF7+pvE41vUndUadAL+IQe+ZbdGn XAyr6UsHg/8OPvV1ZSg14eq83FlXZl0ohXxHEJcbNa/eIQ6qz3bXR1g/uZywtojMe0Ik qKmPK4YZESQKaM0D6Zww2SmD4z8XBJXLcPrQLgpaeLrG1wZpWWhcYIKFLLZK9u6cm8v8 kN6SYlJd2fyr3cPY7Q1pjpmngzqfDb0+NatFvEzo8kAjpiFi3Fn67yU28ZnES6IF46i8 OAjSBDcW4KBFhlEE2Q9x70qeL6QCE6SK6Moeqj2Xzc1Y+nuFTDh6sDxYCLNWh4xybGSJ w/5w== X-Gm-Message-State: AGRZ1gL+Sc/6+7LxwByi6kueE2FqQpHS1934X5Kc94sxYy4CHZdaj5EI KvvJh9b5sUwnbe2RFQAwhrpDQv5o X-Google-Smtp-Source: AJdET5fWegHhodzO+vmiSHJ0niluGgfQc+YQ1qaOFeEyh+VVJFjXRm6bm2PzIvaQQHF4nSyn/ZjDKw== X-Received: by 2002:a0d:f6c7:: with SMTP id g190-v6mr3761052ywf.103.1540922834037; Tue, 30 Oct 2018 11:07:14 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from [192.168.10.217] (mobile-166-170-53-207.mycingular.net. [166.170.53.207]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id s83-v6sm2148241yws.33.2018.10.30.11.07.12 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 30 Oct 2018 11:07:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Flexplate replacement To: Rotary motors in aircraft References: Message-ID: Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2018 13:09:23 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------901FD44667872DFB2E0BF6EE" Content-Language: en-US X-Antivirus: Avast (VPS 181030-0, 10/30/2018), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------901FD44667872DFB2E0BF6EE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Agree. Any kind of composite will likely have a radically different rate of expansion with heat. I'd bet more money on welding up the lightening holes in the flex plate, and an engineer friend has already nixed that idea. Note that the cracks seem to start in the lightening holes. When I found one that wasn't cracked, I polished the edges of the holes with a small Scotchbrite wheel before I installed it, with the hope of removing any stress risers that were created in the punching/forming process. Did I or anyone else mention that Tracy's last design (for 2 rotor/wood prop use) eliminated the damper plate and direct coupled the input shaft to a racing flywheel (instead of the flex plate)? Charlie On 10/30/2018 12:42 PM, argoldman@aol.com wrote: > Joe, > > I am a little concerned with this approach-- not that it won'd work > but adding material with all kinds of different coefficients with the > hope of strengthening may possibly have the opposite effect. For > example adding carbon to fiberglass has the problem that in the > failure mode, when one of the substrates gives out, it transfers an > instant load to the other with sometimes catastrophic results, which > might not have been seen with the failure mode of one of the > substrates by itself. > > Not knowing much about this, I sure would like to have a real engineer > do an evaluation of the addition of the carbon. > > > Rich > In a message dated 10/30/2018 12:31:55 PM Central Standard Time, > flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes: > > I have tried to search the archives and found part of the story. > > I  think it will take a while to find all of the emails. > > Found pics of Dave’s broken flexplate. > > The pics of Dave’s flywheel are very disturbing. > > It appears that the destructive stresses occur between the > counterweight bolt circle and the torsional damper bolt circle. > > If a good flexplate could be modified to strengthen the areas > could this be a fix? > > Clean the flexplate  in the area of the bolt circles and perform a > layup of carbon fiber on both sides. > > A layer of Eglass would be placed between the carbon and steel > flexplate to prevent galvanic reaction. > > The mounting plate for the RD-1C would have to be shimmed the > thickness of the carbon fiber. > > Has anyone thought about this? > > Joe Berki > --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus --------------901FD44667872DFB2E0BF6EE Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Agree. Any kind of composite will likely have a radically different rate of expansion with heat. I'd bet more money on welding up the lightening holes in the flex plate, and an engineer friend has already nixed that idea. Note that the cracks seem to start in the lightening holes. When I found one that wasn't cracked, I polished the edges of the holes with a small Scotchbrite wheel before I installed it, with the hope of removing any stress risers that were created in the punching/forming process.

Did I or anyone else mention that Tracy's last design (for 2 rotor/wood prop use) eliminated the damper plate and direct coupled the input shaft to a racing flywheel (instead of the flex plate)?

Charlie

On 10/30/2018 12:42 PM, argoldman@aol.com wrote:
Joe,

I am a little concerned with this approach-- not that it won'd work but adding material with all kinds of different coefficients with the hope of strengthening may possibly have the opposite effect. For example adding carbon to fiberglass has the problem that in the failure mode, when one of the substrates gives out, it transfers an instant load to the other with sometimes catastrophic results, which might not have been seen with the failure mode of one of the substrates by itself.

Not knowing much about this, I sure would like to have a real engineer do an evaluation of the addition of the carbon.


Rich
In a message dated 10/30/2018 12:31:55 PM Central Standard Time, flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes:

I have tried to search the archives and found part of the story.

I  think it will take a while to find all of the emails.

Found pics of Dave’s broken flexplate.

The pics of Dave’s flywheel are very disturbing. 

It appears that the destructive stresses occur between the counterweight bolt circle and the torsional damper bolt circle. 

If a good flexplate could be modified to strengthen the areas could this be a fix?

Clean the flexplate  in the area of the bolt circles and perform a layup of carbon fiber on both sides.

A layer of Eglass would be placed between the carbon and steel flexplate to prevent galvanic reaction.

The mounting plate for the RD-1C would have to be shimmed the thickness of the carbon fiber.

Has anyone thought about this?

Joe Berki



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