X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: "Stephen Izett" Received: from mail-pg0-f50.google.com ([74.125.83.50] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.12) with ESMTPS id 9144093 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 15 Nov 2016 17:03:54 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=74.125.83.50; envelope-from=steveize@gmail.com Received: by mail-pg0-f50.google.com with SMTP id 3so71160207pgd.0 for ; Tue, 15 Nov 2016 14:03:55 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:mime-version:subject:date:references:to:in-reply-to:message-id; bh=f49o/vUB19uOuJYnnaycsjXBpqFsD+8FfWMZLJVIzwE=; b=LZMY0uWDUTPxWwT8I034a+PXlHvOqden4it0EBi3VCYuw4KVEzLsSAuUEWVa/wdB65 KCZMO8Ijcr64Ivbtb8dUqX15gbXZbQXkpnERQZWcm+h0KR4NlG9fZnIQFHA4zWPnew22 /O9FuvUY7x+hsvnGWCwI7gWgLKaIFttleYMlyIIdXbvWZBkRgk3BUcCOSl8xW4CDOiQM 9u9dafwo23DS/aDmaP3VWbkiKl3NnBNfeRXFTDDRML2MI3MSqF8C25YxA5Hqt5lHSaKp G7uuasbqkiKmkFrqhEDi6gsVtO7hVioX8CJqkFSIvFs0eUUe8lDfxi0ILMncUdJIGAHj FPoA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:mime-version:subject:date:references:to :in-reply-to:message-id; bh=f49o/vUB19uOuJYnnaycsjXBpqFsD+8FfWMZLJVIzwE=; b=Y78mV4vSGMbAHmVDcUGM601bHq+ZmhQECuvyZYjDq951mujRWOQ0pJArLKIzfNDDnB /Jr9mr2cfqLWwz7+N9gqVFiwrXzOetoHbTdvOx7++5Xpbll7g5D27cA3tZlZqgVB9iYv gqD6DhOzIxf7ayY/ZfCsnCUVxDY+Kx+b04bC7emnMdtgR3ymFib3rWpcqY4nzY9LYSzd 9tj6CwFrzPy4aebSFt5O58kZqe5dEWgTXU2Cqe0B7yrSi7+g26oIQ8H+bNJGwQfcwf3f YDwYKBBDD0Jnc53HCaYOeKSn1C1ahwQ89HbwSDfIklaCwinXE+1WY5a4Mrs0cMJ8GU6A TYEQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ABUngvfvPWrqHgjxV/DLcWF7BY3XMNl8/ALMFJ+3qrh/s73fm7VALy0Abr64d9/ZiW05pA== X-Received: by 10.98.19.137 with SMTP id 9mr50407855pft.150.1479247416902; Tue, 15 Nov 2016 14:03:36 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: from [10.1.1.5] (124-148-220-116.dyn.iinet.net.au. [124.148.220.116]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id r21sm46094484pfd.44.2016.11.15.14.03.33 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 15 Nov 2016 14:03:35 -0800 (PST) X-Google-Original-From: Stephen Izett Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_545DF42B-A555-4DEC-B281-8FB947120153" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.1 \(3251\)) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Cooling Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2016 06:03:31 +0800 References: To: Rotary motors in aircraft In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <5C63996A-024B-4AF6-BB86-32E3737B2DF2@icloud.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3251) --Apple-Mail=_545DF42B-A555-4DEC-B281-8FB947120153 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Good morning! Couldn=E2=80=99t sleep so doing some work in bed (laptops = - a brilliant curse). I get the restriction, and wondered about the pressure on the fan at = cruise speeds when rpm tries to imitate a turbo! Steve > On 16 Nov. 2016, at 5:55 am, Neil Unger = wrote: >=20 > Yep, what are doing out of bed??? Also to add, if the fan is not = going it will cause restriction to the incoming air and work against the = cooling set up. Fans are very complicated. Neil. >=20 > On 11/16/2016 8:53 AM, Stephen Izett wrote: >> Is that you, Mr Unger? >> Steve >>> On 16 Nov. 2016, at 5:46 am, Neil Unger > wrote: >>>=20 >>> Steve, forget the fan idea. It sounds simple but to be effective = it has to move enough air to duplicate you almost flying. Would guess 3 = hp min. not enough space and too complicated. The another thing to go = wrong. Get the ducting right will be much simpler. Neil. >>>=20 >>> On 11/16/2016 8:23 AM, Stephen Izett wrote: >>>> Hi Bill >>>> At this point there are no cowl flaps. I tried to create some space = for them should we need to increase exit volume. >>>> I think I'd be really happy with those temps. >>>>=20 >>>> The cowl exits are ramps. When the front gear is down there is = significantly more exit area. >>>> There is about 36in2 of exit area (Gear door closed).=20 >>>> Inlet area is currently 17in2 (right cheek) feeding water exchanger = and 7in2 (lower round intake) feeding oil cooler. 7in2 of Left cheek = feeds air into the filter / throttle body, leaving about 10in2 of the = left cheek blanked off at present. >>>>=20 >>>> The Prop is a second hand electric adjustable from New Zealand. = They are no longer available. Its performance is unknown at this stage. = The design was taken over by Phil at www.sprintaero.com = . >>>>=20 >>>> Have you heard of anyone using electric fans for on the ground = running? >>>>=20 >>>> Cheers >>>> Steve Izett >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 15 Nov. 2016, at 11:26 pm, Bill Bradburry = > = wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>> Steve, >>>>> =20 >>>>> You could try using SCAT ducting to route any unused inlets over = to the water to improve the volume of air. What do = your cowl exits look like? >>>>> In order to really know how everything is working you are going to = have to fly. It will be difficult to do a full power takeoff and then = go into high speed cruise and have the cooling work perfectly for both = conditions unless you have cowl flaps or some manner of controlling the = air. I currently accept 210-220 on takeoff in order to get 180-190 in = cruise. >>>>> =20 >>>>> That plane is going to be fast! It looks like 200K just sitting = in the hangar! >>>>> =20 >>>>> What prop is that? >>>>> =20 >>>>> Bill=20 >>>>> =20 >>>>> From: Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net = ]=20 >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2016 3:13 AM >>>>> To: Rotary motors in aircraft >>>>> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Cooling >>>>> =20 >>>>> Hi there Bill. >>>>>> The water exchanger is ~540 cubic inch in capacity and fed from = the right cheek via a rotating trumpet = shaped diffuser which in turn feeds a wedge. The oil = exchanger is a turbo RX7 unit of 190 cubic inch capacity and fed via a = trumpet/wedge diffuser fed from below the spinner. >>>>> I=E2=80=99ll send some pictures separately as they are together to = large. >>>>>=20 >>>>> =20 >>>>> Cheers >>>>> Steve Izett >>>>> =20 >>>>> >>>>> =20 >>>>> =20 >>>>> =20 >>>>> =20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> On 15 Nov. 2016, at 1:00 pm, Bill Bradburry = > = wrote: >>>>> =20 >>>>> Steve, >>>>> Can you share any photos of your cooling install? Oil and water. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Bill=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net = ]=20 >>>>> Sent: Monday, November 14, 2016 4:21 PM >>>>> To: Rotary motors in aircraft >>>>> Subject: [FlyRotary] Cooling >>>>>=20 >>>>> Hi guys. >>>>> The Glasair SIIRG is near completion and we are taxi testing. >>>>> The OAT is rising as we enter summer. Yesterday was 37C ~ 100F. >>>>> She can idle forever with water stabilising below 220F and oil = below 180F if >>>>> the OAT is below 70F but not sure yet about the warmer days. >>>>> I'm wondering about 3 options and would value your experience and = thoughts: >>>>> 1. Route some more air from the left cheek into the water heat = exchange >>>>> diffuser currently fed by the right cheek. I am currently only = using 50% of >>>>> the left cheek (Blanked off). The other 50% of the left cheek = feeds air to >>>>> the engine. The air is likely not to want to do the gymnastics = required to >>>>> travel the path available.=20 >>>>> 2. Install another small core fed by the available left cheek air = with water >>>>> from the heater outlet. This would make for easy plumping as far = as the >>>>> water system. I'm not sure how much heat we could reject from that = small >>>>> diameter heater outlet? >>>>> 3. Install an electric fan on the main exchanger for extended on = the ground >>>>> running. Main concern with fan is, what happens when cruising at = up to >>>>> 200Knots?=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> Appreciate you feedback >>>>>=20 >>>>> Steve Izett >>>>> Glasair SIIRG Genesis 4 port RD1C EC2 >>>>> Perth Western Australia >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> -- >>>>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>>>> Archive and UnSub: >>>>> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html = >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> -- >>>>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>>>> Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html = >>>=20 >>=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail=_545DF42B-A555-4DEC-B281-8FB947120153 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Good morning! Couldn=E2=80=99t sleep so doing some work in = bed (laptops - a brilliant curse).
I get the restriction, = and wondered about the pressure on the fan at cruise speeds when rpm = tries to imitate a turbo!

Steve
On 16 Nov. 2016, at 5:55 am, Neil Unger = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

=20 =20

Yep,  what are doing out of bed???  Also to add, if = the fan is not going it will cause restriction to the incoming air and work against the cooling set up.  Fans are very complicated.  = Neil.


On 11/16/2016 8:53 AM, Stephen Izett wrote:
Is that you, Mr Unger?
Steve
On 16 Nov. 2016, at 5:46 am, Neil Unger = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Steve,  forget the fan idea.  It sounds simple but to be effective it has to move enough air to duplicate you almost flying.  Would guess 3 hp = min. not enough space and too complicated.  The = another thing to go wrong.   Get the ducting right = will be much simpler.  Neil.


On 11/16/2016 8:23 AM, Stephen Izett wrote:
Hi Bill
At this point there are no cowl flaps. = I tried to create some space for them should we need to increase exit volume.
I think I'd be really happy with those temps.

The cowl exits are ramps. When the = front gear is down there is significantly more exit = area.
There is about 36in2 of exit area = (Gear door closed). 
Inlet area is currently 17in2 (right cheek) feeding water exchanger and 7in2 (lower round intake) feeding oil cooler. 7in2 of Left cheek feeds air into the filter / throttle body, leaving about 10in2 of the left cheek blanked off at = present.

The Prop is a second hand electric adjustable from New Zealand. They are no longer available. Its performance is unknown at this stage. The design was taken over by Phil at  www.sprintaero.com .

Have you heard of anyone using = electric fans for on the ground running?

Cheers
Steve Izett



<Mail Attachment.jpeg>
<Mail Attachment.jpeg><Mail Attachment.jpeg>
On 15 Nov. 2016, at 11:26 pm, = Bill Bradburry <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Steve,
 
You could try using SCAT ducting to route any unused inlets over to the water to improve the volume of air.  What = do your cowl exits look like?
In order to really know how everything is working you are going to have to fly.  It = will be difficult to do a full power takeoff and then go into high speed cruise and have the cooling work perfectly for both conditions unless you have cowl flaps or some manner of controlling the air.  = I currently accept 210-220 on takeoff in order to get 180-190 in cruise.
 
That plane is going to be = fast!  It looks like 200K just sitting in the hangar!
 
What prop is that?
 
Bill 
 
From: Rotary motors in = aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2016 = 3:13 AM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Cooling
 
Hi there Bill.
=
The water exchanger is ~540 cubic inch in capacity and fed from the right cheek via a rotating trumpet shaped diffuser which in turn feeds a wedge. The oil exchanger is a turbo RX7 unit of 190 cubic inch capacity and fed via a trumpet/wedge diffuser fed from below the spinner.
I=E2=80=99ll send some pictures separately as they are together to large.

 
Cheers
Steve Izett
 
<image001.jpg>
 
 
 
 


On 15 Nov. 2016, at 1:00 pm, Bill Bradburry <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
 
Steve,
Can you share any photos of your cooling install?  Oil and water.

Bill 

-----Original Message-----
From: Rotary motors in = aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] 
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2016 4:21 PM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Cooling

Hi guys.
The Glasair SIIRG is near completion and we are taxi testing.
The OAT is rising as we enter summer. Yesterday was 37C ~ 100F.
She can idle forever with water stabilising below 220F and oil below 180F if
the OAT is below 70F but not sure yet about the warmer days.
I'm wondering about 3 options and would value your experience and thoughts:
1. Route some more air from the left cheek into the water heat exchange
diffuser currently fed by the right cheek. I am currently only using 50% of
the left cheek (Blanked off). The other 50% of the left cheek feeds air to
the engine. The air is likely not to want to do the gymnastics required to
travel the path available. 
2. Install another small core fed by the available left cheek air with water
from the heater outlet. This would make for easy plumping as far as the
water system. I'm not sure how much heat we could reject from that small
diameter heater outlet?
3. Install an electric fan on the main exchanger for extended on the ground
running. Main concern with fan is, what happens when cruising at up to
200Knots? 

Appreciate you feedback

Steve Izett
Glasair SIIRG Genesis 4 port RD1C EC2
Perth Western = Australia


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