X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: Received: from omr-a004e.mx.aol.com ([204.29.186.52] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.4) with ESMTPS id 7870469 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 28 Jul 2015 02:17:14 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=204.29.186.52; envelope-from=Lehanover@aol.com Received: from mtaomg-aae01.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-aae01.mx.aol.com [172.27.1.99]) by omr-a004e.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id 0E1DA380008C for ; Tue, 28 Jul 2015 02:16:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from core-mob05h.mail.aol.com (core-mob05.mail.aol.com [172.27.62.15]) by mtaomg-aae01.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id B615B38000081 for ; Tue, 28 Jul 2015 02:16:38 -0400 (EDT) Full-name: Lehanover Message-ID: <1df7de.43b1e2ce.42e87846@aol.com> Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2015 02:16:38 -0400 Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_1df7de.43b1e2ce.42e87846_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 9.7 sub 4049 X-Originating-IP: [74.140.106.236] x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20150623; t=1438064199; bh=6g7oYeAL9NCd2Ctv2qsCUFRsamnxNfCOAysKypIU0lQ=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=cZNFVVyEt8bD3AxzxXBLg5E7kk7iiTR6OUKK78bnsGzooEacYY+i6gXRFCgOioCFs KtSM3NVwu7pH1eSI/6VeWKWy7aQmqOTq8jD2GRdf5rE2UVgY0oeLxtWwscyNOUkP0N PaoL1CHqAQxeqSRgEKQbZgQmM/eD1DHGPTPIN4M8= x-aol-sid: 3039ac1b016355b71e461ed0 --part1_1df7de.43b1e2ce.42e87846_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en I think I saw that at Sun&Fun last year in the engine tent. The gears for= =20 the one I saw were from a racing quick change rear end similar to a full size Speedway Engineering. Straigh= t=20 cut and brutally strong. Testing continues every Friday and Saturday nigh= t=20 by thousands of Chevy powered circle track cars.=20 =20 Lynn E. Hanover =20 =20 In a message dated 7/27/2015 11:00:04 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, =20 flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes: =20 wrote: Yes, but that's probably not the best reason to not use the drive. If the= =20 clutch weighs as much as an entire drive should weigh, that would be a go= od=20 reason to stay away. It sounds like they didn't know how to deal with the= =20 forces at work, & took a sledge hammer approach at avoiding problems. =20 On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 1:21 PM, Bill Bradburry=20 <_flyrotary@lancaironline.net_ (mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net) > wrot= e: =20 Is Geared Drives the company where the owner and his (I think?) daughter= =20 were killed in a plane crash?=20 =20 =20 ____________________________________ =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:_flyrotary@lancaironline.net_=20 (mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net) ]=20 Sent: Monday, July 27, 2015 11:54 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives I think it=E2=80=99s about 70#=E2=80=99s. This is the Geared Drives desi= gn with a few=20 changes. Oil seal retainer is one. =20 Bobby=20 =20 =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:_flyrotary@lancaironline.net_=20 (mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net) ]=20 Sent: Monday, July 27, 2015 11:31 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Alternative redrives =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 I went back to the exhibit buildings, and took some photos of the psru=E2= =80=99s=20 offered by _www.autopsrus.com_ (http://www.autopsrus.com/) . I will forwa= rd=20 these later today as every thing gets transferred . They are spur gear=20 drive, have there own oil supply and pump, use pressure fed roller bearin= gs,=20 will provide oil for a constant speed prop, and are available in many=20 reduction ratios. They make a unit that can be straight through, suitable= for the=20 13-B, the casing is CNC machined. They use a flywheel for the torque=20 damping, and it has a centrifugal clutch that disengages the prop below= ~900=20 engine rpm, so when starting there is no prop load. Will likely be heavie= r than=20 Tracy=E2=80=99s =20 =20 I have to reduce the size of the pictures before I can send them. =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 From: _Tom Gillespie_ (mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net) =20 =20 Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 1:59 PM =20 To: _Rotary motors in aircraft_ (mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net) =20 =20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Anyone or everyone in Oshkosh? =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 Tracy, =20 =20 That is very interesting! Could one be built specifically for my =20 combination of a high HP 20 B? I would have more peace of mind knowing how= it was=20 put together by me along with your knowledge and experience. The thought= of=20 someone just starting out making them does not sit well with me as they= are=20 an unknown. =20 Let me know what you think and I will be in touch. =20 Thanks for your time! =20 ~~~tg~~~ =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 ____________________________________ =20 From: Tracy <_flyrotary@lancaironline.net_=20 (mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net) > To: Rotary motors in aircraft <_flyrotary@lancaironline.net_=20 (mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net) >=20 Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 10:04 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Anyone or everyone in Oshkosh? =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 The design is royalty free. Anyone who wants to build it is more than = =20 welcome. I can help with info if you need it. =20 =20 Tracy Sent from my iPad =20 On Jul 25, 2015, at 17:48, Thomas Mann <_flyrotary@lancaironline.net_=20 (mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net) > wrote: =20 =20 =20 Well, barring the passage of the =E2=80=9CAffordable Airplane Act=E2=80= =9D perhaps we=20 should start trying to solve our own problems. =20 =20 I don=E2=80=99t know what the transaction was regarding production of Tr= acy=E2=80=99s=20 design but if it=E2=80=99s based off of royalties for every unit sold, I= would say=20 that it=E2=80=99s not benefiting anyone.=20 =20 =20 Perhaps a competitive bid is in order? =20 =20 =20 From: _Fly Rotary_ (mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net)=20 Sent: =E2=80=8ESaturday=E2=80=8E, =E2=80=8EJuly=E2=80=8E =E2=80=8E25=E2= =80=8E, =E2=80=8E2015 =E2=80=8E2=E2=80=8E:=E2=80=8E38=E2=80=8E =E2=80=8EPM To: _Fly Rotary_ (mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net)=20 =20 =20 =20 =20 Absent a viable PSRU solution, there probably is no, =E2=80=9Crotary engi= ne option =E2=80=9D=E2=80=A6 :>( =20 =20 B2 =20 =20 =20 ____________________________________ =20 =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]=20 Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 2:01 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Anyone or everyone in Oshkosh? =20 =20 =20 =E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6 no sign of rotaries.=20 =20 =20 __________________________________________________________________________= _ =20 =20 =20 =20 What I have found is that if you want there to be a Rotary Engine forum,= =20 you have to do it yourself.=20 =20 =20 If I had a flying Rotary, I would be willing to do this but as I do not,= =20 it would not be appropriate. =20 =20 =20 =20 We should make an effort to have a =E2=80=9CFly Rotary=E2=80=9D forum and= present our=20 case for the Rotary Engine as a viable alternative to the piston solutio= n. =20 =20 I would propose that this comes from our group rather than as a piggy-bac= k=20 on to any of the other alternative engine groups. =20 =20 I would not want for our engine solution to be sandwich between the=20 Corvair, Subaru and Volkswagen groups. =20 =20 =20 =20 If you want to see it there, you have to make it happen. =20 =20 =20 =20 T Mann =20 --part1_1df7de.43b1e2ce.42e87846_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en
I think I saw that at Sun&Fun last year in the engine tent. The= gears=20 for the one I saw were from a racing
quick change rear end similar to a full size Speedway Engineering. St= raight=20 cut and brutally strong. Testing continues every Friday and Saturday night= by=20 thousands of Chevy powered circle track cars.
 
Lynn E. Hanover
 
In a message dated 7/27/2015 11:00:04 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,=20 flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes:
<slipper clutch is a torsional vibration band-aid
 
A friend described his experience with torsional clutch. On approac= h to=20 airport, engine quit running at idle. Suddenly you drop like a rock due= to=20 that tremendous drag. No landing options, you are just going straight do= wn. He=20 got rid of that thing as fast as he could.
 
-al wick
 
From: William Jepson
Sent: Monday, July 27, 2015 3:32 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives
 
flyrotary@lancaironline.net<= /A>>=20 wrote:
Yes, but that's probably not the best reason to not use= the=20 drive. If the clutch weighs as much as an entire drive should weigh,= that=20 would be a good reason to stay away. It sounds like they didn't know= how to=20 deal with the forces at work, & took a sledge hammer approach at= =20 avoiding problems.
 
On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 1:21 PM, Bill Bradbur= ry <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Is Geared= Drives=20 the company where the owner and his (I think?) daughter were killed= in a=20 plane crash?

 

<= FONT size=3D3=20 face=3D"Times New Roman">

Fr= om:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
Sent: Monday, July 27, 2015= 11:54=20 AM
To: Rot= ary=20 motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Alte= rnative=20 redrives

 

<= SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: calibri; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">I th= ink it=E2=80=99s=20 about 70#=E2=80=99s. This is the  Geared Drives design with a= few changes.=20 Oil seal retainer is one.

<= SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: calibri; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><= /U> 

<= SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: calibri; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Bobb= y

<= SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: calibri; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><= /U> 

<= SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: calibri; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><= /U> 

<= SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: calibri; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><= /U> 

<= SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: calibri; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><= /U> 

Fr= om:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
Sent: Monday, July 27, 2015= 11:31=20 AM
To: Rot= ary=20 motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Alternat= ive=20 redrives

 

I went= back to=20 the exhibit buildings, and took some photos of the psru=E2=80=99s of= fered by www.autopsrus.com . I will forward these later= today as=20 every thing gets transferred . They are spur gear drive, have there= own=20 oil supply and pump, use pressure fed roller bearings, will provide= oil=20 for a constant speed prop, and are available in many reduction ratio= s.=20 They make a unit that can be straight through, suitable for the 13-B= , the=20 casing is CNC machined. They use a flywheel for the torque damping,= and it=20 has a centrifugal clutch that disengages the prop below ~900 engine= rpm,=20 so when starting there is no prop load. Will likely be heavier than= =20 Tracy=E2=80=99s

 

I have= to=20 reduce the size of the pictures before I can send=20 them.

=  

From: Tom Gill= espie=20

Sent: Sunday= , July=20 26, 2015 1:59 PM

To: Rotary= motors in=20 aircraft

Subject: [FlyRo= tary]=20 Re: Anyone or everyone in=20 Oshkosh?

=

 

Trac= y,

&nbs= p;  =20 That is very interesting! Could one be built specifically for my=20 combination of a high HP 20 B? I would have more peace of mind knowi= ng how=20 it was put together by me along with your knowledge and experience.= The=20 thought of someone just starting out making them does not sit well= with me=20 as they are an unknown.

&nbs= p; =20 Let me know what you think and I will be in=20 touch.

Than= ks for=20 your time!

~~~t= g~~~

<= /U> 

<= /U> 

From: Tracy= <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
To: Rotary motors in= =20 aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015= 10:04=20 AM
Subject: [FlyR= otary]=20 Re: Anyone or everyone in=20 Oshkosh?=

<= /U> 

The= design=20 is royalty free.  Anyone who wants to build it is more than=20 welcome.   I can help with info if you need=20 it.

<= /U> 

Trac= y

Sent from my=20 iPad


= On Jul=20 25, 2015, at 17:48, Thomas Mann <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>=20 wrote:

Well= ,=20 barring the passage of the =E2=80=9CAffordable Airplane Act=E2=80= =9D perhaps we should=20 start trying to solve our own problems.=20

I do= n=E2=80=99t know=20 what the transaction was regarding production of=20 Tracy=E2=80=99s design but if it=E2=80= =99s based off of=20 royalties for every unit sold, I would say that it=E2=80=99s not= benefiting=20 anyone.

<= /U> 

Perh= aps a=20 competitive bid is in order?

<= /U> 

From: Fly=20 Rotary
Sent:=20 =E2=80=8ESaturday=E2=80=8E, =E2=80=8EJuly=E2=80=8E =E2=80=8E25=E2= =80=8E, =E2=80=8E2015 =E2=80=8E2=E2=80=8E:=E2=80=8E38=E2=80=8E =E2=80=8EPM=
To: Fly=20 Rotary=

<= /U> 

Absent= a viable=20 PSRU solution, there probably is no, =E2=80=9Crotary engine option= =E2=80=9D=E2=80=A6 =20 :>(=

<= /U> 

B2=

<= /U> 

From:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
Sent: Saturday, July 25, 20= 15 2:01=20 PM
To: R= otary=20 motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: An= yone or=20 everyone in Oshkosh?=

<= /U> 

=E2= =80=A6=E2=80=A6 no sign=20 of rotaries.

____= _______________________________________________________________________=

<= /U> 

What= I have=20 found is that if you want there to be a Rotary Engine forum, you= have to=20 do it yourself.

If= I had a=20 flying Rotary, I would be willing to do this but as I do not, it= would=20 not be appropriate.

<= /U> 

We= should=20 make an effort to have a =E2=80=9CFly Rotary=E2=80=9D forum and pr= esent our case for the=20 Rotary Engine as a viable alternative to the piston=20 solution.

I wo= uld=20 propose that this comes from our group rather than as a piggy-back= on to=20 any of the other alternative engine=20 groups.

I wo= uld not=20 want for our engine solution to be sandwich between the Corvair,= Subaru=20 and Volkswagen groups.

<= /U> 

If= you want=20 to see it there, you have to make it=20 happen.

<= /U> 

T=20 Mann

=

<= /U> 

 
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