X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: "Al Wick" Received: from outbound-mail02.dca.untd.com ([64.136.47.36] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.4) with SMTP id 7870284 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 27 Jul 2015 22:59:55 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.136.47.36; envelope-from=alwick@juno.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=juno.com; s=alpha; t=1438052360; bh=47DEQpj8HBSa+/TImW+5JCeuQeRkm5NMpJWZG3hSuFU=; l=0; h=Message-ID:From:To:Subject:Date:Content-Type; b=ORLauLNrb4yMIX7wpSuseFL/REufzpS1FTQoCzm2dX59C4zmDP/MiBAZQfSV3DDXV T88Tyia96H+zaipn/DEpgqHjHhi5Kmp5jEpGb+iy5IsRYrJcaHLEPPz3/tWjjMDbSk XRHHopHFQ8aIs7L5GUiAkyoUWj+aSX+PxM+vUR80= Received: from Admin7PC ([50.109.255.37]) by smtpout01.dca.untd.com with SMTP id AABL5P6AAAZANHXJ for (sender ); Mon, 27 Jul 2015 19:59:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 19:59:05 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0139_01D0C8A6.B14C5340" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 16.4.3528.331 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V16.4.3528.331 X-Originating-Ip: 50.109.255.37 X-UNTD-BodySize: 33561 X-ContentStamp: 52:26:4118618075 X-MAIL-INFO:16996d6d99f4c4d49484c49484b9b98191b01d7df5242470b0f9f9a5dd19e1a4508411b13da1147d6d94c5f9c541004499b9d5d48465fdfd6455857d0dc99d01 X-UNTD-OriginStamp: L941HVjjYzDhN3itp//mkMTesexI7btEYqZ4ReUHVDFwo+zC6nkUSw== X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 10.171.42.31|smtpout01.dca.untd.com|smtpout01.dca.untd.com|alwick@juno.com This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0139_01D0C8A6.B14C5340 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = wrote: Yes, but that's probably not the best reason to not use the drive. If = the clutch weighs as much as an entire drive should weigh, that would be = a good reason to stay away. It sounds like they didn't know how to deal = with the forces at work, & took a sledge hammer approach at avoiding = problems. On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 1:21 PM, Bill Bradburry = wrote: Is Geared Drives the company where the owner and his (I think?) = daughter were killed in a plane crash? -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = Sent: Monday, July 27, 2015 11:54 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives I think it=E2=80=99s about 70#=E2=80=99s. This is the Geared Drives = design with a few changes. Oil seal retainer is one.=20 Bobby From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = Sent: Monday, July 27, 2015 11:31 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Alternative redrives I went back to the exhibit buildings, and took some photos of the = psru=E2=80=99s offered by www.autopsrus.com . I will forward these later = today as every thing gets transferred . They are spur gear drive, have = there own oil supply and pump, use pressure fed roller bearings, will = provide oil for a constant speed prop, and are available in many = reduction ratios. They make a unit that can be straight through, = suitable for the 13-B, the casing is CNC machined. They use a flywheel = for the torque damping, and it has a centrifugal clutch that disengages = the prop below ~900 engine rpm, so when starting there is no prop load. = Will likely be heavier than Tracy=E2=80=99s I have to reduce the size of the pictures before I can send them. From: Tom Gillespie=20 Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 1:59 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Anyone or everyone in Oshkosh? Tracy, That is very interesting! Could one be built specifically for my = combination of a high HP 20 B? I would have more peace of mind knowing = how it was put together by me along with your knowledge and experience. = The thought of someone just starting out making them does not sit well = with me as they are an unknown. Let me know what you think and I will be in touch. Thanks for your time! ~~~tg~~~ -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- From: Tracy To: Rotary motors in aircraft =20 Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 10:04 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Anyone or everyone in Oshkosh? The design is royalty free. Anyone who wants to build it is more = than welcome. I can help with info if you need it. Tracy Sent from my iPad On Jul 25, 2015, at 17:48, Thomas Mann = wrote: Well, barring the passage of the =E2=80=9CAffordable Airplane = Act=E2=80=9D perhaps we should start trying to solve our own problems.=20 I don=E2=80=99t know what the transaction was regarding production = of Tracy=E2=80=99s design but if it=E2=80=99s based off of royalties for = every unit sold, I would say that it=E2=80=99s not benefiting anyone.=20 Perhaps a competitive bid is in order? From: Fly Rotary Sent: =E2=80=8ESaturday=E2=80=8E, =E2=80=8EJuly=E2=80=8E = =E2=80=8E25=E2=80=8E, =E2=80=8E2015 = =E2=80=8E2=E2=80=8E:=E2=80=8E38=E2=80=8E =E2=80=8EPM To: Fly Rotary Absent a viable PSRU solution, there probably is no, = =E2=80=9Crotary engine option=E2=80=9D=E2=80=A6 :>( B2 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - From: Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]=20 Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 2:01 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Anyone or everyone in Oshkosh? =E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6 no sign of rotaries.=20 = _________________________________________________________________________= __ What I have found is that if you want there to be a Rotary Engine = forum, you have to do it yourself.=20 If I had a flying Rotary, I would be willing to do this but as I = do not, it would not be appropriate. We should make an effort to have a =E2=80=9CFly Rotary=E2=80=9D = forum and present our case for the Rotary Engine as a viable alternative = to the piston solution. I would propose that this comes from our group rather than as a = piggy-back on to any of the other alternative engine groups. I would not want for our engine solution to be sandwich between = the Corvair, Subaru and Volkswagen groups. If you want to see it there, you have to make it happen. T Mann ------=_NextPart_000_0139_01D0C8A6.B14C5340 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<slipper clutch is a torsional vibration band-aid
 
A friend described his experience with torsional clutch. On = approach to=20 airport, engine quit running at idle. Suddenly you drop like a rock due = to that=20 tremendous drag. No landing options, you are just going straight down. = He got=20 rid of that thing as fast as he could.
 
-al wick
 
Sent: Monday, July 27, 2015 3:32 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative = redrives
 

I don't disagree. The slipper clutch is a torsional = vibration=20 band-aid. The properly designed system makes it totally unneeded.

Bill Jepson

On Jul 27, 2015 3:29 PM, "Charlie England" = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>=20 wrote:
Yes, but that's probably not the best reason to not use = the=20 drive. If the clutch weighs as much as an entire drive should weigh, = that=20 would be a good reason to stay away. It sounds like they didn't know = how to=20 deal with the forces at work, & took a sledge hammer approach at = avoiding=20 problems.
 
On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 1:21 PM, Bill = Bradburry <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Is Geared = Drives=20 the company where the owner and his (I think?) daughter were killed = in a=20 plane crash?

 

From:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
Sent: Monday, July 27, 2015 = 11:54=20 AM
To: = Rotary motors=20 in aircraft
Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative = redrives

 

I = think it=E2=80=99s=20 about 70#=E2=80=99s. This is the  Geared Drives design with a = few changes. Oil=20 seal retainer is one.

 

Bobby

 

 

 

 

From:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
Sent: Monday, July 27, 2015 = 11:31=20 AM
To: = Rotary motors=20 in aircraft
Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] Alternative = redrives

 

I went = back to=20 the exhibit buildings, and took some photos of the psru=E2=80=99s = offered by www.autopsrus.com . I will=20 forward these later today as every thing gets transferred . They are = spur=20 gear drive, have there own oil supply and pump, use pressure fed = roller=20 bearings, will provide oil for a constant speed prop, and are = available in=20 many reduction ratios. They make a unit that can be straight = through,=20 suitable for the 13-B, the casing is CNC machined. They use a = flywheel for=20 the torque damping, and it has a centrifugal clutch that disengages = the prop=20 below ~900 engine rpm, so when starting there is no prop load. Will = likely=20 be heavier than=20 = Tracy=E2=80=99s

 

I have = to reduce=20 the size of the pictures before I can send=20 them.

 

From: Tom Gillespie =

Sent: = Sunday, July 26,=20 2015 1:59 PM

To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20

Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re:=20 Anyone or everyone in=20 = Oshkosh?

 

Tracy,

   =20 That is very interesting! Could one be built specifically for my = combination=20 of a high HP 20 B? I would have more peace of mind knowing how it = was put=20 together by me along with your knowledge and experience. The thought = of=20 someone just starting out making them does not sit well with me as = they are=20 an unknown.

  =20 Let me know what you think and I will be in=20 touch.

Thanks for=20 your time!

~~~tg~~~

 

 

From: Tracy = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
To: Rotary motors in=20 aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 = 10:04=20 AM
Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re:=20 Anyone or everyone in=20 Oshkosh?

 

The = design is=20 royalty free.  Anyone who wants to build it is more than=20 welcome.   I can help with info if you need=20 it.

 

Tracy

Sent from my=20 iPad


On Jul 25,=20 2015, at 17:48, Thomas Mann <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>=20 wrote:

Well, barring=20 the passage of the =E2=80=9CAffordable Airplane Act=E2=80=9D = perhaps we should start=20 trying to solve our own problems. =

I = don=E2=80=99t know=20 what the transaction was regarding production of=20 Tracy=E2=80=99s design but if = it=E2=80=99s based off of=20 royalties for every unit sold, I would say that it=E2=80=99s not = benefiting=20 anyone.

 

Perhaps a=20 competitive bid is in order?

 

From: Fly=20 Rotary
Sent:=20 =E2=80=8ESaturday=E2=80=8E, =E2=80=8EJuly=E2=80=8E = =E2=80=8E25=E2=80=8E, =E2=80=8E2015 = =E2=80=8E2=E2=80=8E:=E2=80=8E38=E2=80=8E =E2=80=8EPM
To: Fly=20 Rotary

 

Absent = a viable=20 PSRU solution, there probably is no, =E2=80=9Crotary engine = option=E2=80=9D=E2=80=A6 =20 :>(

 

B2

 

From: = Rotary=20 motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] =
Sent: Saturday, July 25, = 2015 2:01=20 PM
To: = Rotary=20 motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Anyone or=20 everyone in = Oshkosh?

 

=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6 no sign of=20 rotaries.

__________________________________________________________________= _________

 

What = I have=20 found is that if you want there to be a Rotary Engine forum, you = have to=20 do it yourself.

If I = had a=20 flying Rotary, I would be willing to do this but as I do not, it = would not=20 be appropriate.

 

We = should make=20 an effort to have a =E2=80=9CFly Rotary=E2=80=9D forum and present = our case for the Rotary=20 Engine as a viable alternative to the piston=20 solution.

I = would=20 propose that this comes from our group rather than as a piggy-back = on to=20 any of the other alternative engine=20 groups.

I = would not=20 want for our engine solution to be sandwich between the Corvair, = Subaru=20 and Volkswagen groups.

 

If = you want to=20 see it there, you have to make it=20 happen.

 

T=20 = Mann

<= /BLOCKQUOTE>

 

=
 
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