X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from hub026-NJ-5.exch026.serverdata.net ([206.225.166.168] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.8) with ESMTPS id 6745887 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 23 Feb 2014 16:17:53 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=206.225.166.168; envelope-from=jwhaley@datacast.com Received: from MBX026-E1-NJ-2.exch026.domain.local ([10.240.14.52]) by HUB026-NJ-5.exch026.domain.local ([10.240.14.42]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Sun, 23 Feb 2014 13:17:17 -0800 From: Jeff Whaley To: 'Rotary motors in aircraft' Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Vortex Generator in air duct Thread-Topic: [FlyRotary] Vortex Generator in air duct Thread-Index: Ac8w2ctZqPrhE5b3TIGWG+F6GKKWrA== Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2014 21:17:16 +0000 Message-ID: <234B758DE9A64449BEB6BB5D1345CA7A36159D35@mbx026-e1-nj-2.exch026.domain.local> Accept-Language: en-CA, en-US Content-Language: en-CA X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [204.237.115.3] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_234B758DE9A64449BEB6BB5D1345CA7A36159D35mbx026e1nj2exch_" MIME-Version: 1.0 --_000_234B758DE9A64449BEB6BB5D1345CA7A36159D35mbx026e1nj2exch_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm not sure about the roof-ridge material either but perhaps he meant cutt= ing small strips from an aluminum ridge-cap, allowing the peaks slight prot= rusion into the air stream and riveting on the flats -- there are strips av= ailable for fastening to the lower roof used to prevent large build-ups of = ice -- they resemble vortex generators. I'm happy to see you are enjoying t= he experimental part of your homebuilt. Yes, the thermostat will limit you= r minimum temperature which is a great asset in cold weather. If you are turning air 90 degrees 2 times you'll need excellent ducting. I= n contrast to vortex generators, several contributors to this list are real= ly pinching the air at the back of their plenumns; if you allw too much spa= ce in that location most of the air will pass through the core in a relativ= ely small (1/3 surface) area. Stay with it ... Jeff From: shipchief@aol.com Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: [Fly Rotary] Vortex Generator in air du= ct Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 23:26:19 -0500 (EST) To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net [Message Header] [Undecoded Message] Jeff; That's a good point. I've heard of that 1:1 ratio, however, I'm using the s= tock Mazda oil cooler with a 170F Thermostat. In my case, it will always be= above 170 by some margin, then ambient effects will have their way. I was pleased the Vortex Generator worked so well for such little effort. I= thought I should share it. I'm agreeing with you that winter is a good tim= e to start flight testing, and also I probably need more improvement as the= weather warms. Tracy suggested 'roof ridge material', which I couldn't figure out. Perhaps= he meant a loose strand media that serves to slow the air flow through the= back where most of the air naturally passes, so that some of the air must = pass thru the front of the cooler also? My son Peter suggests the next step could be a partial scoop half way back = that directs some air to the forward part of the cooler. -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Whaley To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Fri, Feb 21, 2014 1:44 pm Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: [Fly Rotary] Vortex Generator in air duct All improvements are good; however, you can expect a 1:1 degree rise in you= r operating temperatures relative to ambient air temperature. If 185F is the cruise result on a 40F day =96 you should expect 245F in cru= ise if the air temperature reaches 100F. In other words, you=92re not quit= e there yet; winter is an excellent time to experiment with a liquid-cooled= engine as there is little chance of overheating. Realistically, if you wa= nt <200F oil temperature at 100F you need to see <140F oil temperature wit = OAT 40F. It is not easy to design for both ends of the spectrum =85 Jeff This message, and the documents attached hereto, is intended only for the a= ddressee and may contain privileged or confidential information. Any unauth= orized disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message= in error, please notify us immediately so that we may correct our internal= records. Please then delete the original message. Thank you. --_000_234B758DE9A64449BEB6BB5D1345CA7A36159D35mbx026e1nj2exch_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I'm not sure about the roof-ridge material either but perhaps he meant c= utting small strips from an aluminum ridge-cap, allowing the peaks slight p= rotrusion into the air stream and riveting on the flats -- there are strips= available for fastening to the lower roof used to prevent large build-ups of ice -- they resemble vortex = generators. I'm happy to see you are enjoying the experimental part of your= homebuilt.  Yes, the thermostat will limit your minimum temperature w= hich is a great asset in cold weather.

If you are turning air 90 degrees 2 times you'll need excellent ducting.=   In contrast to vortex generators, several contributors to this = list are really pinching the air at the back of their plenumns; if you allw= too much space in that location most of the air will pass through the core in a relatively small (1/3 surface) area.

Stay with it ...

Jeff

 

From: shipchief@aol.com
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: [Fly Rotary] Vortex Generat= or in air duct
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 23:26:19 -0500 (EST)
To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net
3D"Message

3D"Undecoded
Jeff;
That's a good point. I've heard of that 1:1 ratio, however, I'm u= sing the stock Mazda oil cooler with a 170F Thermostat. In my case, it will= always be above 170 by some margin, then ambient effects will have their w= ay.
I was pleased the Vortex Generator worked so well for such little= effort. I thought I should share it. I'm agreeing with you that winter is = a good time to start flight testing, and also I probably need more improvem= ent as the weather warms.
Tracy suggested 'roof ridge material', which I couldn't figure out.&nb= sp;Perhaps he meant a loose strand media that serves to slow the air f= low through the back where most of the air naturally passes, so that some o= f the air must pass thru the front of the cooler also?
My son Peter suggests the next step could be a partial scoop half way = back that directs some air to the forward part of the cooler.  &n= bsp;        
= -----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Whaley <jwhaley@datacast.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Fri, Feb 21, 2014 1:44 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: [Fly Rotary] Vortex Generator in air duct

All improvements are good; however, you can expect= a 1:1 degree rise in your operating temperatures relative to ambient air t= emperature.
If 185F is the cruise result on a 40F day =96 you = should expect 245F in cruise if the air temperature reaches 100F.  In = other words, you=92re not quite there yet; winter is an excellent time to e= xperiment with a liquid-cooled engine as there is little chance of overheating.  Realistically, if you want <200F= oil temperature at 100F you need to see <140F oil temperature wit OAT 4= 0F.  It is not easy to design for both ends of the spectrum =85
Jeff

This message, and the documents attached hereto, is intended only for the a= ddressee and may contain privileged or confidential information. Any unauth= orized disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message= in error, please notify us immediately so that we may correct our internal records. Please then delete the origin= al message. Thank you. --_000_234B758DE9A64449BEB6BB5D1345CA7A36159D35mbx026e1nj2exch_--