X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from omr-d07.mx.aol.com ([205.188.109.204] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.8) with ESMTPS id 6744212 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 21 Feb 2014 23:26:53 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.188.109.204; envelope-from=shipchief@aol.com Received: from mtaomg-mbc01.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-mbc01.mx.aol.com [172.26.221.143]) by omr-d07.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id 01BC8700000AF for ; Fri, 21 Feb 2014 23:26:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from core-ddb002b.r1000.mail.aol.com (core-ddb002.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.29.52.69]) by mtaomg-mbc01.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id C4B6938000083 for ; Fri, 21 Feb 2014 23:26:19 -0500 (EST) References: To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: [Fly Rotary] Vortex Generator in air duct In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: shipchief@aol.com X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8D0FD9D5E7E4D14_13F4_2E6F2_webmail-vd016.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 38394-STANDARD Received: from 174.61.189.169 by webmail-vd016.sysops.aol.com (205.188.178.107) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Fri, 21 Feb 2014 23:26:19 -0500 Message-Id: <8D0FD9D5E68E0AB-13F4-C70A@webmail-vd016.sysops.aol.com> X-Originating-IP: [174.61.189.169] Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 23:26:19 -0500 (EST) x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5600.1067/96694 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20121107; t=1393043179; bh=NQG65g5LboM/VAJ5dyoS1s9zKmh7v6qziNlpEmMK4wA=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-Id:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=L/Tfgn29NvQgPjVGdiTy0h3sz/zR62HxMIJ+cYs8wJ/kVYheleTWpOy80kaw7p264 FDTx9lsxkiGUBlf2by5Hhy4vo/VgU57sHmaueCtknQqnfx8D1jLjhGgkcSme5tdioC /598jPORHcg5bznzTK8Uf8wD6/BtRJtP0vIPW8ro= x-aol-sid: 3039ac1add8f530826eb178d This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ----------MB_8D0FD9D5E7E4D14_13F4_2E6F2_webmail-vd016.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Jeff; That's a good point. I've heard of that 1:1 ratio, however, I'm using the s= tock Mazda oil cooler with a 170F Thermostat. In my case, it will always be= above 170 by some margin, then ambient effects will have their way. I was pleased the Vortex Generator worked so well for such little effort. I= thought I should share it. I'm agreeing with you that winter is a good tim= e to start flight testing, and also I probably need more improvement as the= weather warms. Tracy suggested 'roof ridge material', which I couldn't figure out. Perhaps= he meant a loose strand media that serves to slow the air flow through the= back where most of the air naturally passes, so that some of the air must = pass thru the front of the cooler also? My son Peter suggests the next step could be a partial scoop half way back = that directs some air to the forward part of the cooler. =20 -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Whaley To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Fri, Feb 21, 2014 1:44 pm Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: [Fly Rotary] Vortex Generator in air duct All improvements are good; however, you can expect a 1:1 degree rise in you= r operating temperatures relative to ambient air temperature. If 185F is the cruise result on a 40F day =E2=80=93 you should expect 245F = in cruise if the air temperature reaches 100F. In other words, you=E2=80= =99re not quite there yet; winter is an excellent time to experiment with a= liquid-cooled engine as there is little chance of overheating. Realistica= lly, if you want <200F oil temperature at 100F you need to see <140F oil te= mperature wit OAT 40F. It is not easy to design for both ends of the spect= rum =E2=80=A6 Jeff =20 From: shipchief@aol.com Subject: Vortex Generator in air duct Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2014 19:46:08 -0500 (EST) To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net I was discussing the first few flights with some friends at the airplane a = few weeks ago, and mentioned the oil temp had reached 200F after climbing 3= 500 feet from take off. That was on a sub 40F day. My oil cooler lays fore and aft along the right cowl cheek, and all the air= from the right cowl inlet serves this cooler. I built a nice divergent duc= t back to it, where the air must turn down and make a 90 degree turn to pas= s thru the cooler element. then it meets a louvered cover where the air tur= ns aft 90 degrees to re-enter the free stream outside. When looking into the mouth of the duct, you can see the aft third of the c= ooler. Bob K a retired Boeing flight test engineer suggested I put a vortex gener= ator in the oil cooler duct to pull the air down along the divergent floor. So I did! I made a "Hall" type vortex generator, right out of a picture in = the Aircraft Spruce catalog, and stuck it into the center of the duct floor= , at the start of the divergent part. I bent it up out of a scrap of .025" = aluminum and stuck it in place with double sided carpet tape. On my next flight, I noticed cooler oil temps generally, and specifically, = no temps near 200F during the initial climb to 4000 feet where I have been = doing most of my early testing. Cruise temps run about 185F. We'll see what= happens as the weather gets warmer. =20 This message, and the documents attached hereto, is intended only for the a= ddressee and may contain privileged or confidential information. Any unauth= orized disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message= in error, please notify us immediately so that we may correct our internal= records. Please then delete the original message. Thank you. ----------MB_8D0FD9D5E7E4D14_13F4_2E6F2_webmail-vd016.sysops.aol.com Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="--------MB_8D0FD9D5E7E4D14_13F4_2E6F3_webmail-vd016.sysops.aol.com" ----------MB_8D0FD9D5E7E4D14_13F4_2E6F3_webmail-vd016.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8"
Jeff;
That's a good point. I've heard of that 1:1 ratio, however, I'm u= sing the stock Mazda oil cooler with a 170F Thermostat. In my case, it will= always be above 170 by some margin, then ambient effects will have their w= ay.
I was pleased the Vortex Generator worked so well for such little= effort. I thought I should share it. I'm agreeing with you that winter is = a good time to start flight testing, and also I probably need more improvem= ent as the weather warms.
Tracy suggested 'roof ridge material', which I couldn't figure out.&nb= sp;Perhaps he meant a loose strand media that serves to slow the air f= low through the back where most of the air naturally passes, so that some o= f the air must pass thru the front of the cooler also?
My son Peter suggests the next step could be a partial scoop half way = back that directs some air to the forward part of the cooler.  &n= bsp;        
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Whaley <jwhaley@datacast.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Fri, Feb 21, 2014 1:44 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: [Fly Rotary] Vortex Generator in air duct

All improvements are good; however, you can expect= a 1:1 degree rise in your operating temperatures relative to ambient air t= emperature.
If 185F is the cruise result on a 40F day =E2=80= =93 you should expect 245F in cruise if the air temperature reaches 100F. &= nbsp;In other words, you=E2=80=99re not quite there yet; winter is an excel= lent time to experiment with a liquid-cooled engine as there is little chance of overheating.  Realistically, if you want <200F= oil temperature at 100F you need to see <140F oil temperature wit OAT 4= 0F.  It is not easy to design for both ends of the spectrum =E2=80=A6<= /div>
Jeff
 
Fro= m:
shipchief@aol.com
Sub= ject:
Vor= tex Generator in air duct
Dat= e:
Sun= , 16 Feb 2014 19:46:08 -0500 (EST)
To:=
flyrotary@lancaironline.net=
3D"Message

3D"Undecoded
I w= as discussing the first few flights with some friends at the airplane a few= weeks ago, and mentioned the oil temp had reached 200F after climbing 3500= feet from take off. That was on a sub 40F day.
My = oil cooler lays fore and aft along the right cowl cheek, and all the air fr= om the right cowl inlet serves this cooler. I built a nice divergent duct b= ack to it, where the air must turn down and make a 90 degree turn to pass thru th= e cooler element. then it meets a louvered cover where the air turns a= ft 90 degrees to re-enter the free stream outside.
Whe= n looking into the mouth of the duct, you can see the aft third of the cool= er.
&nb= sp;Bob K a retired Boeing flight test engineer suggested I put a vortex gen= erator in the oil cooler duct to pull the air down along the divergent floo= r.
So = I did! I made a "Hall" type vortex generator, right out of a picture i= n the Aircraft Spruce catalog, and stuck it into the center of the duct flo= or, at the start of the divergent part. I bent it up out of a scrap of .025" aluminum and s= tuck it in place with double sided carpet tape.
On = my next flight, I noticed cooler oil temps generally, and specifically, no = temps near 200F during the initial climb to 4000 feet where I have been doi= ng most of my early testing. Cruise temps run about 185F. We'll see what happens a= s the weather gets warmer.
 
This message, and the documents attached hereto, is intended only for the a= ddressee and may contain privileged or confidential information. Any unauth= orized disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message= in error, please notify us immediately so that we may correct our internal records. Please then delete the origin= al message. Thank you.
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