X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-yk0-f175.google.com ([209.85.160.175] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.8) with ESMTPS id 6725023 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 09 Feb 2014 13:58:57 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.160.175; envelope-from=ceengland7@gmail.com Received: by mail-yk0-f175.google.com with SMTP id 131so4762406ykp.6 for ; Sun, 09 Feb 2014 10:58:22 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type; bh=dKRmEsPqNI+MrfJQFY44W6nz6F/8bFba1pHoLqSW3tk=; b=MRzpAkvHKwdE+s1fjgSQndaA8zjq2TVCc7ceYZzfAla0uRCjRepWkJal5yP71eOIFn x2FmriExiZfEDFoMZNmBtDffuTDnKbpR8EKkpw12ea9mSrZvhuIOvahFYJ6Bomq0Ekk5 IgKsa47R8HnJugZmta/yerfCj3xEtKVIoU77DZxLDTsGVdnK8xEGojPjRc/rn0iNH4e0 Dzkmw3mbRY8jxyy3TdHO7OVWnKNNvheh9HxSvdFVYJBCEYV+PqMpIVW/7IaVzERbKqD5 AFMOLfIqk2x+6C2op9mkMMzcoqbEplXoSl9wLZWPacPCMGULDV5ZWVtYjdpwetJ9NnBp 7WFA== X-Received: by 10.236.137.14 with SMTP id x14mr23365201yhi.4.1391972301969; Sun, 09 Feb 2014 10:58:21 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: from [192.168.10.36] (adsl-98-95-185-7.jan.bellsouth.net. [98.95.185.7]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id f78sm36823901yhp.12.2014.02.09.10.58.20 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 09 Feb 2014 10:58:21 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <52F7D001.6090400@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 09 Feb 2014 12:59:13 -0600 From: Charlie England User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Fwd: Fwf weight References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------080405030903090705020005" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------080405030903090705020005 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit That sounds very good for an -8, especially with a turbo. There are lots of Lyc powered -8s out there that weigh closer to 1200 lbs, so you did good. :-) I'm hoping I can keep mine in the same ballpark. Charlie On 2/9/2014 10:55 AM, shipchief@aol.com wrote: > I didn't weigh my engine, as it was never complete as I assembled it > and it's systems onto the aircraft. Then one day it was done (well, it > could run continuously without overheating) > However, we all weigh & balance our planes before certification, and > my RV-8 weighed just under 1100 lbs. > It's probably gaining weight as I add stuff, but for an initial > weight, it's very standard for an RV-8 with a Lycoming O-360 & > constant speed prop. > For reference, my engine is a 13BT with a TO-4e turbocharger on a > short 321 stainless tube exhaust manifold. I have a Paul Lamar lower > intake manifold, on which I welded a full 4 tube w/ plenum intake. A > Griffin Aluminum radiator for a car is mounted under the oil pan. > It all sits on a Fred Breese mount. > By the way, what happened to Fred? > I was pleased that the weight is reasonable, I put a lot of work into > finding 'lightness' > m > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlie England > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Sent: Sun, Feb 9, 2014 7:53 am > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fwd: Fwf weight > > I wish I'd weighed my O-320 Lyc installation when I had it off the -4 > for a top overhaul, but it just didn't occur to me at the time. > > The firewall portion of my mount (without the gear legs) weighs 15 lbs, > so that makes 325 lbs plus any added weight for the muffler. I might be > able to offset most of the muffler weight by building a stainless > manifold; the stock portion on the engine weighs 9.3 lbs. The radiator & > duct weighs 8.7 lbs, with just over a pound for its mounting brackets. I > forgot to separately weigh the oil cooler/duct/mount, but it's not > light. The engine mount adapters are massively over built, but the > combined weight of all three plus the 'V' that ties the top mount to the > main mount is just over 7 lbs. > > I remember you thinking that your installation could have been lighter > without the stainless coolant lines. I suppose I shouldn't be too > disappointed with this weight, but I had this vague hope of coming in > under 300 lbs. Doesn't seem possible unless much lighter heat exchangers > are available. Anyone manage to hit the 300 mark (without the firewall > portion of the mount, of course)? > > Charlie > > On 2/9/2014 6:31 AM, Ed Anderson wrote: > > Charlie, my FWF installation weighed in a 340 lbs that included > > everything including the motor mount (did not include prop). Included > > Engine, Gear box, starter, two radiators, oil cooler, ducting, exhaust > > header (no muffler) and intake manifold. It also include a bunch of > > heavy -16 stainless steel braid radiator hoses and smaller oil and > > fuel lines (all SS braid) and their heavy fittings. It also include > > my small header tank and oil/air separator (since removed). > > > > Ed > > > > > > -----Original Message----- From: Charlie England > > Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2014 11:12 PM > > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > > Subject: [FlyRotary] Fwd: Fwf weight > > > > Anyone else weigh their installation? I'd like to know how this compares. > > > > This is dry weight, including all the mount adapter hardware that isn't > > attached to the firewall, Richard's OMP adapter & OMP, intake manifold > > (not including the sheet aluminum cover for the plenum), both heat > > exchangers/diffusers, almost all the engine plumbing, and the 'core' of > > the stock exhaust manifold (fairly heavy). It does not include a muffler > > (6 lbs for the Aeroturbine AT2525) or the associated stainless tubing. I > > even threw on a couple of plastic reservoirs to account for coolant & > > 2stroke oil tanks. To be realistic, I'll probably need to add another > > 10-15 lbs, minimum. > > > > Charlie > > > -- > Homepage:http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub:http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html --------------080405030903090705020005 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
That sounds very good for an -8, especially with a turbo. There are lots of Lyc powered -8s out there that weigh closer to 1200 lbs, so you did good. :-)

I'm hoping  I can keep mine in the same ballpark.

Charlie

On 2/9/2014 10:55 AM, shipchief@aol.com wrote:
I didn't weigh my engine, as it was never complete as I assembled it and it's systems onto the aircraft. Then one day it was done (well, it could run continuously without overheating)
However, we all weigh & balance our planes before certification, and my RV-8 weighed just under 1100 lbs.
It's probably gaining weight as I add stuff, but for an initial weight, it's very standard for an RV-8 with a Lycoming O-360 & constant speed prop.
For reference, my engine is a 13BT with a TO-4e turbocharger on a short 321 stainless tube exhaust manifold. I have a Paul Lamar lower intake manifold, on which I welded a full 4 tube w/ plenum intake. A Griffin Aluminum radiator for a car is mounted under the oil pan.
It all sits on a Fred Breese mount.
By the way, what happened to Fred?
I was pleased that the weight is reasonable, I put a lot of work into finding 'lightness'
m
-----Original Message-----
From: Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Sun, Feb 9, 2014 7:53 am
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fwd: Fwf weight

I wish I'd weighed my O-320 Lyc installation when I had it off the -4 
for a top overhaul, but it just didn't occur to me at the time.

The firewall portion of my mount (without the gear legs) weighs 15 lbs, 
so that makes 325 lbs plus any added weight for the muffler. I might be 
able to offset most of the muffler weight by building a stainless 
manifold; the stock portion on the engine weighs 9.3 lbs. The radiator & 
duct weighs 8.7 lbs, with just over a pound for its mounting brackets. I 
forgot to separately weigh the oil cooler/duct/mount, but it's not 
light. The engine mount adapters are massively over built, but the 
combined weight of all three plus the 'V' that ties the top mount to the 
main mount is just over 7 lbs.

I remember you thinking that your installation could have been lighter 
without the stainless coolant lines. I suppose I shouldn't be too 
disappointed with this weight, but I had this vague hope of coming in 
under 300 lbs. Doesn't seem possible unless much lighter heat exchangers 
are available. Anyone manage to hit the 300 mark (without the firewall 
portion of the mount, of course)?

Charlie

On 2/9/2014 6:31 AM, Ed Anderson wrote:
> Charlie, my FWF installation weighed in a 340 lbs that included 
> everything including the motor mount (did not include prop).  Included 
> Engine, Gear box, starter, two radiators, oil cooler, ducting, exhaust 
> header (no muffler) and intake manifold.  It also include a bunch of 
> heavy -16 stainless steel braid radiator hoses and smaller oil and 
> fuel lines (all SS braid) and their heavy fittings.  It also include 
> my small header tank and oil/air separator (since removed).
>
> Ed
>
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Charlie England
> Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2014 11:12 PM
> To: Rotary motors in aircraft
> Subject: [FlyRotary] Fwd: Fwf weight
>
> Anyone else weigh their installation? I'd like to know how this compares.
>
> This is dry weight, including all the mount adapter hardware that isn't
> attached to the firewall, Richard's OMP adapter & OMP, intake manifold
> (not including the sheet aluminum cover for the plenum), both heat
> exchangers/diffusers, almost all the engine plumbing, and the 'core' of
> the stock exhaust manifold (fairly heavy). It does not include a muffler
> (6 lbs for the Aeroturbine AT2525) or the associated stainless tubing. I
> even threw on a couple of plastic reservoirs to account for coolant &
> 2stroke oil tanks. To be realistic, I'll probably need to add another
> 10-15 lbs, minimum.
>
> Charlie


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