X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from omr-d01.mx.aol.com ([205.188.252.208] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.8) with ESMTPS id 6724818 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 09 Feb 2014 11:56:30 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.188.252.208; envelope-from=shipchief@aol.com Received: from mtaomg-mac02.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-mac02.mx.aol.com [172.26.222.208]) by omr-d01.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id 4143670057A95 for ; Sun, 9 Feb 2014 11:55:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from core-ddd003a.r1000.mail.aol.com (core-ddd003.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.29.52.201]) by mtaomg-mac02.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id 0946738000086 for ; Sun, 9 Feb 2014 11:55:54 -0500 (EST) References: To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Fwd: Fwf weight In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: shipchief@aol.com X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8D0F3CEEDDE1631_2560_494E7_webmail-m137.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 38366-STANDARD Received: from 72.171.16.59 by webmail-m137.sysops.aol.com (149.174.9.25) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Sun, 09 Feb 2014 11:55:53 -0500 Message-Id: <8D0F3CEEDD490B5-2560-12E92@webmail-m137.sysops.aol.com> X-Originating-IP: [72.171.16.59] Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2014 11:55:53 -0500 (EST) x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20121107; t=1391964954; bh=p6eRZqT+1TU6E96qdma14Q8y3qi8NqAn4FGGmWrI7eI=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-Id:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=axsbMluuo/H+3xGgq2iCU66SOO+zvi1vchF+8ZlpSJlHLJQeFL5SfRA4QnaPjRjmC fIqzntIzEsA/hWh2yeCKnK7kYyQ99XsNU62tasycbYh67f5VJXupqZRLs0Yqf3fHLu n9wRZ7XcaTTQCw2hl41h3F1AEBQ8lkn/T11Atyco= x-aol-sid: 3039ac1aded052f7b31a27d2 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ----------MB_8D0F3CEEDDE1631_2560_494E7_webmail-m137.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I didn't weigh my engine, as it was never complete as I assembled it and it= 's systems onto the aircraft. Then one day it was done (well, it could run = continuously without overheating) However, we all weigh & balance our planes before certification, and my RV-= 8 weighed just under 1100 lbs. It's probably gaining weight as I add stuff, but for an initial weight, it'= s very standard for an RV-8 with a Lycoming O-360 & constant speed prop. For reference, my engine is a 13BT with a TO-4e turbocharger on a short 321= stainless tube exhaust manifold. I have a Paul Lamar lower intake manifold= , on which I welded a full 4 tube w/ plenum intake. A Griffin Aluminum radi= ator for a car is mounted under the oil pan. It all sits on a Fred Breese mount.=20 By the way, what happened to Fred?=20 I was pleased that the weight is reasonable, I put a lot of work into findi= ng 'lightness' m -----Original Message----- From: Charlie England To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Sun, Feb 9, 2014 7:53 am Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fwd: Fwf weight I wish I'd weighed my O-320 Lyc installation when I had it off the -4=20 for a top overhaul, but it just didn't occur to me at the time. The firewall portion of my mount (without the gear legs) weighs 15 lbs,=20 so that makes 325 lbs plus any added weight for the muffler. I might be=20 able to offset most of the muffler weight by building a stainless=20 manifold; the stock portion on the engine weighs 9.3 lbs. The radiator &=20 duct weighs 8.7 lbs, with just over a pound for its mounting brackets. I=20 forgot to separately weigh the oil cooler/duct/mount, but it's not=20 light. The engine mount adapters are massively over built, but the=20 combined weight of all three plus the 'V' that ties the top mount to the=20 main mount is just over 7 lbs. I remember you thinking that your installation could have been lighter=20 without the stainless coolant lines. I suppose I shouldn't be too=20 disappointed with this weight, but I had this vague hope of coming in=20 under 300 lbs. Doesn't seem possible unless much lighter heat exchangers=20 are available. Anyone manage to hit the 300 mark (without the firewall=20 portion of the mount, of course)? Charlie On 2/9/2014 6:31 AM, Ed Anderson wrote: > Charlie, my FWF installation weighed in a 340 lbs that included=20 > everything including the motor mount (did not include prop). Included=20 > Engine, Gear box, starter, two radiators, oil cooler, ducting, exhaust=20 > header (no muffler) and intake manifold. It also include a bunch of=20 > heavy -16 stainless steel braid radiator hoses and smaller oil and=20 > fuel lines (all SS braid) and their heavy fittings. It also include=20 > my small header tank and oil/air separator (since removed). > > Ed > > > -----Original Message----- From: Charlie England > Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2014 11:12 PM > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Subject: [FlyRotary] Fwd: Fwf weight > > Anyone else weigh their installation? I'd like to know how this compares. > > This is dry weight, including all the mount adapter hardware that isn't > attached to the firewall, Richard's OMP adapter & OMP, intake manifold > (not including the sheet aluminum cover for the plenum), both heat > exchangers/diffusers, almost all the engine plumbing, and the 'core' of > the stock exhaust manifold (fairly heavy). It does not include a muffler > (6 lbs for the Aeroturbine AT2525) or the associated stainless tubing. I > even threw on a couple of plastic reservoirs to account for coolant & > 2stroke oil tanks. To be realistic, I'll probably need to add another > 10-15 lbs, minimum. > > Charlie -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.= html =20 ----------MB_8D0F3CEEDDE1631_2560_494E7_webmail-m137.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
I didn't weigh my engine, as it was never complete as I = ;assembled it and it's systems onto the aircraft. Then one day it was = done (well, it could run continuously without overheating)
However, we all weigh & balance our planes before certification, a= nd my RV-8 weighed just under 1100 lbs.
It's probably gaining weight as I add stuff, but for an initial weight= , it's very standard for an RV-8 with a Lycoming O-360 & constant = speed prop.
For reference, my engine is a 13BT with a TO-4e turbocharger on a shor= t 321 stainless tube exhaust manifold. I have a Paul Lamar lower intake man= ifold, on which I welded a full 4 tube w/ plenum intake. A Griffin Alu= minum radiator for a car is mounted under the oil pan.
It all sits on a Fred Breese mount.
By the way, what happened to Fred?
I was pleased that the weight is reasonable, I put a lot of work into = finding 'lightness'
m
-----Original Message-----
From: Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Sun, Feb 9, 2014 7:53 am
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fwd: Fwf weight

I wish I'd weighed my O-320 Lyc installa=
tion when I had it off the -4=20
for a top overhaul, but it just didn't occur to me at the time.

The firewall portion of my mount (without the gear legs) weighs 15 lbs,=20
so that makes 325 lbs plus any added weight for the muffler. I might be=20
able to offset most of the muffler weight by building a stainless=20
manifold; the stock portion on the engine weighs 9.3 lbs. The radiator &=
;=20
duct weighs 8.7 lbs, with just over a pound for its mounting brackets. I=20
forgot to separately weigh the oil cooler/duct/mount, but it's not=20
light. The engine mount adapters are massively over built, but the=20
combined weight of all three plus the 'V' that ties the top mount to the=20
main mount is just over 7 lbs.

I remember you thinking that your installation could have been lighter=20
without the stainless coolant lines. I suppose I shouldn't be too=20
disappointed with this weight, but I had this vague hope of coming in=20
under 300 lbs. Doesn't seem possible unless much lighter heat exchangers=20
are available. Anyone manage to hit the 300 mark (without the firewall=20
portion of the mount, of course)?

Charlie

On 2/9/2014 6:31 AM, Ed Anderson wrote:
> Charlie, my FWF installation weighed in a 340 lbs that included=20
> everything including the motor mount (did not include prop).  Included=
=20
> Engine, Gear box, starter, two radiators, oil cooler, ducting, exhaust=
=20
> header (no muffler) and intake manifold.  It also include a bunch of=
=20
> heavy -16 stainless steel braid radiator hoses and smaller oil and=20
> fuel lines (all SS braid) and their heavy fittings.  It also include=
=20
> my small header tank and oil/air separator (since removed).
>
> Ed
>
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Charlie England
> Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2014 11:12 PM
> To: Rotary motors in aircraft
> Subject: [FlyRotary] Fwd: Fwf weight
>
> Anyone else weigh their installation? I'd like to know how this compar=
es.
>
> This is dry weight, including all the mount adapter hardware that isn'=
t
> attached to the firewall, Richard's OMP adapter & OMP, intake mani=
fold
> (not including the sheet aluminum cover for the plenum), both heat
> exchangers/diffusers, almost all the engine plumbing, and the 'core' o=
f
> the stock exhaust manifold (fairly heavy). It does not include a muffl=
er
> (6 lbs for the Aeroturbine AT2525) or the associated stainless tubing.=
 I
> even threw on a couple of plastic reservoirs to account for coolant &a=
mp;
> 2stroke oil tanks. To be realistic, I'll probably need to add another
> 10-15 lbs, minimum.
>
> Charlie


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