X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mta31.charter.net ([216.33.127.82] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.8) with ESMTP id 6704237 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 27 Jan 2014 09:08:57 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=216.33.127.82; envelope-from=cardmarc@charter.net Received: from imp09 ([10.20.200.9]) by mta31.charter.net (InterMail vM.8.01.05.02 201-2260-151-103-20110920) with ESMTP id <20140127140822.WEDX6769.mta31.charter.net@imp09> for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2014 09:08:22 -0500 Received: from HomeDesktop ([97.94.202.172]) by imp09 with smtp.charter.net id K28N1n00A3jh26R0528NR1; Mon, 27 Jan 2014 09:08:22 -0500 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.0 cv=TOkd0CZa c=1 sm=1 a=xycr6CVXJRVtFs4WRGOeRA==:17 a=oy3Of1nQACoA:10 a=yUnIBFQkZM0A:10 a=hOpmn2quAAAA:8 a=IDaqyO3QoeQA:10 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=pcLIrrrKAAAA:8 a=3oc9M9_CAAAA:8 a=Ox3X2B8Dj7I5TuvuN2EA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=ftFGBYpk1mUA:10 a=U8Ie8EnqySEA:10 a=yMhMjlubAAAA:8 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=UM9WHN0ieSAT21aWbVkA:9 a=gKO2Hq4RSVkA:10 a=UiCQ7L4-1S4A:10 a=hTZeC7Yk6K0A:10 a=frz4AuCg-hUA:10 a=tXsnliwV7b4A:10 a=UrGMheEIJIxSwQvU:21 a=xycr6CVXJRVtFs4WRGOeRA==:117 From: "Marc Wiese" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Exhaust Leak at Turbo Outlet Flange Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2014 08:08:23 -0600 Message-ID: <00f501cf1b69$3ddf8ad0$b99ea070$@charter.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00F6_01CF1B36.F34764C0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQEnIAUFMIUiXIeHAHX5np/WKbyFH5vokjdA Content-Language: en-us This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00F6_01CF1B36.F34764C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I believe Mazda uses some Inconel hardware on the 93+ 13Brew engines....found this out the hard and expensive way. Marc From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of David Leonard Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2014 8:14 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Exhaust Leak at Turbo Outlet Flange Bummer! Glad you are safe. I use the stock steel nuts. Locknuts might be an improvement but not if there is any non-steel component. I did loose one of those nuts once without to-do. Not sure how long it was gone. The other 2 held everyting together. Be very careful with what gaskets you choose. I found some nice-looking aftermarket turbo manifold gaskets for about $20 while the stock versions are about $90 each, so I installed one. It lasted about 30 hours until it disintigrated. The resulting exhaust leak burned through a coolant line and I dead sticked onto a local airport (departing from a formation routine at an airshow!.. complete with a cloud of steam). Sigh, the stock ones are nothing but stainless steel layer, not some sort of fiber stuff in the after market ones. On another occasion I was using some very nice and expensive exhaust clamps that were steel but I didnt notice that part of the block holding the nuts was aluminum. About 50 hrs in something caused the alumimum to get too hot, which created an exhaust leak, which accelerated the process. It burned a hole in the cowl and splatered molten aluminum everywhere - some of it is still around. Another time I was using some fancy exhaust wrap. It slowly disintigrated over the course of 100+ hours and was generally an annoyance. I tried a flowmaster hushpower muffler but melted most of the stuffing out of it on the first flight. Luckily it melted pretty cleanly and didnt clog the exhaust. Moral of the story.. as if it didn't take me long enough to beat this through my skull.. NOTHING that is not made of steel or better goes into any part of the exhaust system. Particularly gaskets and nuts. Guess I should have passed that one along sooner. Glad you got back safely. Good job. Dave Leonard On Sat, Jan 25, 2014 at 5:14 PM, wrote: I had the nuts come loose on my turbo manifold on the block, I'm using with out the turbo, so I drilled the nuts and secured them with wire. JohnD Thanks for keeping us all informed , helps us all to make sure we look for often simple overlooked areas. Cheers Christian Renises 13 b rv7 Sent from my iPad On 26/01/2014, at 3:17 AM, shipchief@aol.com wrote: During the 8th flight of my RV8 with 13B Turbo, I experienced an exhaust leak at the turbo exhaust flange. I mistakenly used brass exhaust nuts which are twice as tall as regular nuts. They work great on most engines. I should have know better, as the temperature at the turbo outlet, under the insulation is much higher. The brass nuts softened and deformed into a flange face at the washer! Once the tension was gone, the heat & vibration did the rest. The exhaust gasket blew where the gap was widest, at the top. The escaping heat burned thru the insulating jacket and the stick on reflective aluminum. Then the fiberglass cowl charred, I smelled that! I was close to my destination, and high, so I was able to pull off the power, put down the nosed and get on the ground without incident. I'm disassembling it now, looks like I need 4 high temperature lock nuts and a TO-4 exhaust flange gasket. I should review and improve the insulation over the turbine housing. Also I need to repair the charred area of the cowl, which might be in the form of an aluminum access hatch. ------=_NextPart_000_00F6_01CF1B36.F34764C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I believe = Mazda uses some Inconel hardware on the 93+ 13Brew = engines…………found this out the hard and expensive = way.

Marc

 

From:= = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On = Behalf Of David Leonard
Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2014 = 8:14 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re: Exhaust Leak at Turbo Outlet = Flange

 

Bummer!  Glad you are = safe.

 

I = use the stock steel nuts.  Locknuts might be an improvement but not = if there is any non-steel component.  I did loose one of those nuts = once without to-do.  Not sure how long it was gone.  The other = 2 held everyting together.

 

Be very careful with what gaskets you choose.  I = found some nice-looking aftermarket turbo manifold gaskets for about $20 = while the stock versions are about $90 each, so I installed one.  = It lasted about 30 hours until it disintigrated.  The resulting = exhaust leak burned through a coolant line and I dead sticked onto a = local airport (departing from a formation routine at an = airshow!..  complete with a cloud of = steam).

 

Sigh, the stock ones are nothing but stainless = steel layer, not some sort of fiber stuff in the after market = ones. 

 

On another occasion I was using some very nice and = expensive exhaust clamps that were steel but I didnt notice that part of = the block holding the nuts was aluminum.  About 50 hrs in something = caused the alumimum to get too hot, which created an exhaust leak, which = accelerated the process.  It burned a hole in the cowl and = splatered molten aluminum everywhere - some of it is still = around.

 

Another time I was using some fancy exhaust = wrap.  It slowly disintigrated over the course of 100+ hours and = was generally an annoyance.

 

I = tried a flowmaster hushpower muffler but melted most of the = stuffing out of it on the first flight. Luckily it melted pretty cleanly = and didnt clog the exhaust.

 

Moral of the story..  as if it didn't take me = long enough to beat this through my skull..  NOTHING that is = not made of steel or better goes into any part of the exhaust = system.  Particularly gaskets and nuts.

 

Guess I should have passed that one along = sooner.  Glad you got back safely.  Good = job.

 

Dave Leonard

On Sat, Jan 25, 2014 at 5:14 PM, <downing.j@sbcglobal.net> = wrote:

 

I had the = nuts come loose on my turbo manifold on the block, I'm using = with out the turbo, so I drilled the nuts and secured them with = wire.  JohnD

 

Thanks for keeping us all informed , helps us all to = make sure we look for often simple overlooked = areas.

 

Cheers

Christian 

Renises 13 b rv7

Sent from my = iPad


On 26/01/2014, at 3:17 AM, shipchief@aol.com = wrote:

During the 8th = flight of my RV8 with 13B Turbo, I experienced an exhaust leak at the = turbo exhaust flange. I mistakenly used brass exhaust nuts  which = are twice as tall as regular nuts. They work great on most engines. I = should have know better, as the temperature at the turbo outlet, under = the insulation is much higher.

The brass nuts = softened and deformed into a flange face at the washer! Once the tension = was gone, the heat & vibration did the = rest.

The exhaust = gasket blew where the gap was widest, at the = top.

The escaping heat = burned thru the insulating jacket and the stick on reflective = aluminum. Then the fiberglass cowl charred, I smelled = that!

I was close to my = destination, and high, so I was able to pull off the power, put down the = nosed and get on the ground without = incident.

I'm disassembling = it now, looks like I need 4 high temperature lock nuts and a TO-4 = exhaust flange gasket. I should review and improve the insulation over = the turbine housing. Also I need to repair the charred area of the cowl, = which might be in the form of an aluminum access = hatch.

<= /div>

 

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