X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fmailhost03.isp.att.net ([204.127.217.103] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.8) with ESMTP id 6703502 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 26 Jan 2014 13:19:03 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=204.127.217.103; envelope-from=bbradburry@bellsouth.net Received: from desktop (adsl-98-85-109-90.mco.bellsouth.net[98.85.109.90]) by isp.att.net (frfwmhc03) with SMTP id <20140126181829H0300pnf7ae>; Sun, 26 Jan 2014 18:18:29 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [98.85.109.90] From: "Bill Bradburry" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Velocity tire blow out Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2014 13:18:30 -0500 Message-ID: <85E7146B8E454F9094D205E6CB1B2D6E@Desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003A_01CF1A99.1B48AD60" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: Ac8aWt6K+vYB/k7oSQ65IkEiuuDAKAAZ+rLg X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18463 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003A_01CF1A99.1B48AD60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris, How far out in front of the tire is that one inch or 1.5 inch measured? That seems like a lot of toe in. The Lancair fixed gears are 0.5 inch measured 3 feet in front of the tire. Hopefully,attached to a follow on msg is a jpg on how to build a jig to measure the toe in. The list is limited to 300kb and the file is 285kb. Bill _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Chris Barber Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 12:52 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Velocity tire blow out The manual says one inch towards center. Velocity Inc responded on the Velocity list 1.5 inches. I hope to make out to the hangar when I get off duty at 0070 hrs in the morning (Sunday. Still adapting to graveyard shift I started this week). Bought two new tires and tube yesterday. Will be trying to figure it out. Chris Sent from my iPhone 5 On Jan 25, 2014, at 22:30, "Terry Adams" wrote: Chris, I'll make that 4 cents - Mark's 2 + my 2. What does Velocity indicate for checking toe-in/toe-out? Terry N51079 KSCK On 1/24/2014 9:36 AM, Mark Steitle wrote: Chris, My 2 cents worth... This sounds more line a toe-in /toe-out situation. While it may be perfect while in a static state, it could go to a toe-out condition due to gear flex under hard braking. Camber doesn't typically cause rapid tire wear, but toe-in / toe-out will. Mark Sent from my iPad On Jan 24, 2014, at 12:37 AM, Chris Barber wrote: Well, on one hand I am pleased that when I did a quick loop of the pattern after I got off work this morning (I just switched to graveyard shift this week so get off work at 0700 hrs) my rotary ran smooth and strong and seemed to be producing pretty kick ass power. HOWEVER, when I landed, I had my starboard tire blow out. Yes, it is quite the attention getter. I swayed slightly to the right of center of the runway at LVJ and luckily exited the taxiway closest to my hangar. I was able to get it back to the hangar. No damage to the aircraft this time, not even the tire rim. But, I noted I had excessive wear on the inside of the tire.....much more than i would have expected with only 15 landings and less than seven hours of flight. I have done extensive taxi testing though (basically having and expensive go-cart) I had noted on my conditional inspection that I had uneven wear but it did not seem that bad and I pledged to mind it. I concluded that the uneven wear on the inner tire was due to the gear spread that I had noticed on my and other canards (my hangar mate has a long easy and he is always lifting his bird to get the gear from spreading after taxi). Velocity is pretty specific on how to set the camber and recommend you set the camber after installing the engine and wings, which I did. When the gear is not spread, the tires set directly in the center "meat" of the tire. However, I have now noted...with the consequences, that as the gear spreads, there is a significant tilt to the inner edge of the tires thus causing the wear. The gear bow is provided in the Velocity kit and it quite sturdy. What am I missing regarding the bow spread tilting the tire to the inside of the tire, thus wearing in what would seem a less wear prone area? I am certain the camber was proper when the gear is not spreading out. I remember how tedious it was setting it, lowering the plane, checking, lifting, setting, lowering, checking repeat a number of times to ensure the proper set (same goes to the toe-in process), but it is significant enough from the spread to roll the tire on the inner edge to cause a problem. Before I drop a few hundred on new tire and tube and try to fly again, I would like to figure out what I need to address. Is it just to re-set the camber to be on the center meat of the tire when spread since this seems to be the case when taxiing or is there something else? Insight guys???? Discuss. Thanks, Chris cross posted to the canard aviation forum and the Velocity list as I know this is outside the scope of this list. ------=_NextPart_000_003A_01CF1A99.1B48AD60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Chris, =

How far out in front of the tire is = that one inch or 1.5 inch measured? That seems like a lot of toe in. The = Lancair fixed gears are 0.5 inch measured 3 feet in front of the = tire.

 

Hopefully,attached to a follow on = msg is a jpg on how to build a jig to measure the toe in.  The list is = limited to 300kb and the file is 285kb.

 

Bill

 

 

 

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Chris = Barber
Sent: Sunday, January 26, = 2014 12:52 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Velocity tire blow out

 

The manual says one inch towards center. =  

 

Velocity Inc responded on the Velocity list 1.5 inches. I hope = to make out to the hangar when I get off duty at 0070 hrs in the morning = (Sunday. Still adapting to graveyard shift I started this week). Bought two new tires = and tube yesterday. Will be trying to figure it = out. 

 

Chris

Sent from my iPhone 5


On Jan 25, 2014, at 22:30, "Terry Adams" <terrywadams@sbcglobal.net&g= t; wrote:

Chris,
I'll make that 4 cents - Mark's 2 + my 2.  What does Velocity = indicate for checking toe-in/toe-out?

Terry
N51079
KSCK

On 1/24/2014 9:36 AM, Mark Steitle wrote:

Chris, 

 

My 2 cents worth...  This sounds more line a toe-in = /toe-out situation.  While it may be perfect while in a static state, it = could go to a toe-out condition due to gear flex under hard braking.  Camber doesn't typically cause rapid tire wear, but toe-in / toe-out will. =  

 

Mark



Sent from my iPad


On Jan 24, 2014, at 12:37 AM, Chris = Barber <cbarber@texasattorney.net> wrote:

Well, on one hand I am pleased that when I did a quick loop of the pattern = after I got off work this morning (I just switched to graveyard shift this week = so get off work at 0700 hrs) my rotary ran smooth and strong and seemed to be producing pretty kick ass power.

HOWEVER, when I landed, I had my = starboard tire blow out. Yes, it is quite the attention getter. I swayed slightly = to the right of center of the runway at LVJ and luckily exited the taxiway = closest to my hangar.

I was able to get it back to the = hangar. No damage to the aircraft this time, not even the tire rim. But, I noted I = had excessive wear on the inside of the tire.....much more than i would have expected with only 15 landings and less than seven hours of flight. I = have done extensive taxi testing though (basically having and expensive = go-cart)

I had noted on my conditional = inspection that I had uneven wear but it did not seem that bad and I pledged to mind it. = I concluded that the uneven wear on the inner tire was due to the gear = spread that I had noticed on my and other canards (my hangar mate has a long = easy and he is always lifting his bird to get the gear from spreading after = taxi).

Velocity is pretty specific on how to = set the camber and recommend you set the camber after installing the engine and = wings, which I did.

When the gear is not spread, the = tires set directly in the center "meat" of the tire. However, I have now noted...with the consequences, that as the gear spreads, there is a = significant tilt to the inner edge of the tires thus causing the wear.

The gear bow is provided in the = Velocity kit and it quite sturdy. What am I missing regarding the bow spread tilting = the tire to the inside of the tire, thus wearing in what would seem a less = wear prone area? I am certain the camber was proper when the gear is not = spreading out. I remember how tedious it was setting it, lowering the plane, = checking, lifting, setting, lowering, checking repeat a number of times to ensure = the proper set (same goes to the toe-in process), but it is significant = enough from the spread to roll the tire on the inner edge to cause a = problem.

Before I drop a few hundred on new = tire and tube and try to fly again, I would like to figure out what I need to = address. Is it just to re-set the camber to be on the center meat of the tire = when spread since this seems to be the case when taxiing or is there = something else?

Insight guys???? Discuss.

Thanks,

Chris

 

cross posted to the canard aviation forum and the Velocity list as I know this = is outside the scope of this list.

 

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