X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from nm2-vm4.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com ([216.109.114.91] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.8) with ESMTPS id 6702884 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 25 Jan 2014 23:31:05 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=216.109.114.91; envelope-from=terrywadams@sbcglobal.net Received: from [66.196.81.158] by nm2.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Jan 2014 04:30:30 -0000 Received: from [98.138.226.243] by tm4.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Jan 2014 04:30:30 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp114.sbc.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Jan 2014 04:30:30 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=sbcglobal.net; s=s1024; t=1390710630; bh=pV1UWCqGsqzyCI+05JgLjSIG0WhgUXI1fsznHpSlc6I=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Id:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-Rocket-Received:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:Content-Type; b=3MlOpM/zGXBmUZy8rIjL2nR0dUDqk9CaD3IaNf/qb8qwi7yBJg8NGSKTI1ypiWVFIJiwIPKMXmMP7HrVC61iQoqYfZzsWVRGy2u9D6q4Z6e8ujyCNoocdZO6nnUxntF1kAHddUXSEz56lmOHGbjf8D5MvfvWVQs0DuCSzT6SBME= X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 501524.27310.bm@smtp114.sbc.mail.ne1.yahoo.com X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: a.9ekkkVM1lDbAjorHDxPK_V5lRRcsORG7LCrKulgwt2OZc C1MI5zdIf1ROWdGoYp84iDcctvfEmCprQHRF9wjaxTF_5k6Cidd3imsDvg_b EKqRPBZm5JhW0lBkQV11sno9n7cVzxnaO6CLHyoQIr96ZgssNd5Liq6EQnWE vkL71h9niFfY1BPr.Q37SQvm3k7MmAdmzPiPTCMiUzbwbSHZkrfcePWu.UEr l_mlMAADB7Ei7tA5EtHrMm3qXkSc5lPcYiTKm3DpnGsS.jiUTFjPyk4EORPp jlbDGef1uz0NzpsVfL0MFhNK9xx44EvHacxt9xrP8ZoRGP03.Ap0sUBoAqWP mUIHyHqKj5x7f2kkaKtubVzJwTO0rYiqW_vMsAAzwncMH0N6UWzmeucIYUPE in9v.ppSPiTiIZ4NPKAs1ccaNwJx9CsAxQdISUrv7a.q_ASP8uBE_MWTkvhV QgBMIe1zzLnTmHDvxTur6fvmS9IwRk9XhNb2gELX25SaduBLDwhrbO42GlYw _b2BlHvYCkpAgmLkbqM1jDuJHOmwWa7dLnaxDIDcwoz7KRCXho_qQG3UWhlT 0Jt6RFAi68Blc2u5XAj3r X-Yahoo-SMTP: _xj_QFOswBAGNFsIK1V4P7NsbfZPkM3.8ogi7X.YgvnM.mbzD54- X-Rocket-Received: from [10.0.0.3] (terrywadams@67.181.81.6 with plain [98.138.31.74]) by smtp114.sbc.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Jan 2014 04:30:30 +0000 UTC Message-ID: <52E48F67.6030501@sbcglobal.net> Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2014 20:30:31 -0800 From: Terry Adams User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Velocity tire blow out References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------090208050409020105040802" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------090208050409020105040802 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris, I'll make that 4 cents - Mark's 2 + my 2. What does Velocity indicate for checking toe-in/toe-out? Terry N51079 KSCK On 1/24/2014 9:36 AM, Mark Steitle wrote: > Chris, > > My 2 cents worth... This sounds more line a toe-in /toe-out > situation. While it may be perfect while in a static state, it could > go to a toe-out condition due to gear flex under hard braking. Camber > doesn't typically cause rapid tire wear, but toe-in / toe-out will. > > Mark > > > Sent from my iPad > > On Jan 24, 2014, at 12:37 AM, Chris Barber > wrote: > >> Well, on one hand I am pleased that when I did a quick loop of the >> pattern after I got off work this morning (I just switched to >> graveyard shift this week so get off work at 0700 hrs) my rotary ran >> smooth and strong and seemed to be producing pretty kick ass power. >> >> HOWEVER, when I landed, I had my starboard tire blow out. Yes, it is >> quite the attention getter. I swayed slightly to the right of center >> of the runway at LVJ and luckily exited the taxiway closest to my hangar. >> >> I was able to get it back to the hangar. No damage to the aircraft >> this time, not even the tire rim. But, I noted I had excessive wear >> on the inside of the tire.....much more than i would have expected >> with only 15 landings and less than seven hours of flight. I have >> done extensive taxi testing though (basically having and expensive >> go-cart) >> >> I had noted on my conditional inspection that I had uneven wear but >> it did not seem that bad and I pledged to mind it. I concluded that >> the uneven wear on the inner tire was due to the gear spread that I >> had noticed on my and other canards (my hangar mate has a long easy >> and he is always lifting his bird to get the gear from spreading >> after taxi). >> >> Velocity is pretty specific on how to set the camber and recommend >> you set the camber after installing the engine and wings, which I did. >> >> When the gear is not spread, the tires set directly in the center >> "meat" of the tire. However, I have now noted...with the >> consequences, that as the gear spreads, there is a significant tilt >> to the inner edge of the tires thus causing the wear. >> >> The gear bow is provided in the Velocity kit and it quite sturdy. >> What am I missing regarding the bow spread tilting the tire to the >> inside of the tire, thus wearing in what would seem a less wear prone >> area? I am certain the camber was proper when the gear is not >> spreading out. I remember how tedious it was setting it, lowering the >> plane, checking, lifting, setting, lowering, checking repeat a number >> of times to ensure the proper set (same goes to the toe-in process), >> but it is significant enough from the spread to roll the tire on the >> inner edge to cause a problem. >> >> Before I drop a few hundred on new tire and tube and try to fly >> again, I would like to figure out what I need to address. Is it just >> to re-set the camber to be on the center meat of the tire when spread >> since this seems to be the case when taxiing or is there something else? >> >> Insight guys???? Discuss. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Chris >> >> cross posted to the canard aviation forum and the Velocity list as I >> know this is outside the scope of this list. --------------090208050409020105040802 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Chris,
I'll make that 4 cents - Mark's 2 + my 2.  What does Velocity indicate for checking toe-in/toe-out?

Terry
N51079
KSCK

On 1/24/2014 9:36 AM, Mark Steitle wrote:
Chris, 

My 2 cents worth...  This sounds more line a toe-in /toe-out situation.  While it may be perfect while in a static state, it could go to a toe-out condition due to gear flex under hard braking.  Camber doesn't typically cause rapid tire wear, but toe-in / toe-out will.  

Mark


Sent from my iPad

On Jan 24, 2014, at 12:37 AM, Chris Barber <cbarber@texasattorney.net> wrote:

Well, on one hand I am pleased that when I did a quick loop of the pattern after I got off work this morning (I just switched to graveyard shift this week so get off work at 0700 hrs) my rotary ran smooth and strong and seemed to be producing pretty kick ass power.

HOWEVER, when I landed, I had my starboard tire blow out. Yes, it is quite the attention getter. I swayed slightly to the right of center of the runway at LVJ and luckily exited the taxiway closest to my hangar.

I was able to get it back to the hangar. No damage to the aircraft this time, not even the tire rim. But, I noted I had excessive wear on the inside of the tire.....much more than i would have expected with only 15 landings and less than seven hours of flight. I have done extensive taxi testing though (basically having and expensive go-cart)

I had noted on my conditional inspection that I had uneven wear but it did not seem that bad and I pledged to mind it. I concluded that the uneven wear on the inner tire was due to the gear spread that I had noticed on my and other canards (my hangar mate has a long easy and he is always lifting his bird to get the gear from spreading after taxi).

Velocity is pretty specific on how to set the camber and recommend you set the camber after installing the engine and wings, which I did.

When the gear is not spread, the tires set directly in the center "meat" of the tire. However, I have now noted...with the consequences, that as the gear spreads, there is a significant tilt to the inner edge of the tires thus causing the wear.

The gear bow is provided in the Velocity kit and it quite sturdy. What am I missing regarding the bow spread tilting the tire to the inside of the tire, thus wearing in what would seem a less wear prone area? I am certain the camber was proper when the gear is not spreading out. I remember how tedious it was setting it, lowering the plane, checking, lifting, setting, lowering, checking repeat a number of times to ensure the proper set (same goes to the toe-in process), but it is significant enough from the spread to roll the tire on the inner edge to cause a problem.

Before I drop a few hundred on new tire and tube and try to fly again, I would like to figure out what I need to address. Is it just to re-set the camber to be on the center meat of the tire when spread since this seems to be the case when taxiing or is there something else?

Insight guys???? Discuss.

Thanks,

Chris

cross posted to the canard aviation forum and the Velocity list as I know this is outside the scope of this list.

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