X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from qmta09.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.96] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.7) with ESMTP id 6510391 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 10 Oct 2013 15:43:31 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=76.96.62.96; envelope-from=wschertz@comcast.net Received: from omta20.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.71]) by qmta09.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id bR0F1m0031YDfWL59Xixqs; Thu, 10 Oct 2013 19:42:57 +0000 Received: from OwnerPC ([71.57.77.95]) by omta20.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id bXiw1m00L23NHuF3gXiwc4; Thu, 10 Oct 2013 19:42:56 +0000 Message-ID: <417A9A0F607044CF90A55B31A93DFC42@OwnerPC> From: "William Schertz" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: waterless coolant? Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2013 14:42:48 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0042_01CEC5C6.FDA8AED0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 15.4.3538.513 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V15.4.3538.513 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.net; s=q20121106; t=1381434177; bh=giOUw41Z/ouXRbwOeg5WlRotvLEsUEyhqdgWjt/G92M=; h=Received:Received:Message-ID:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version: Content-Type; b=nPT9x+PGD+I5RBwRDVJPKtxZJbCD5K2sQw3GMQQT/3WwwzRSzE+JX55IR308ZXfkc wRFcP2pOv2uVKqaDZVSke5w+MGPYzBTafe8JH9pA79YgfsRAjoC7qRQzs5Jmywz4WD yCS6bQuVPfzn7urccBuMYOtpd7su+D/JnzqLpK5klvEu/dEnD4KYndCYIp1zkVU+h0 y+6lDRR2snjXxMLouxOE50yUhZXXgLohSaux5V3Fg/ATVZA6sIAgsEz3LGNhYw2qWQ NVDi8zeDmnFmJqPymzPSOa0PthpeDN9uecY0hne6qhohCRd5HJ8BvvhhUMR+6m7Vjg kiRTSieMfvB8w== This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0042_01CEC5C6.FDA8AED0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Next time I am at my hanger, I will pull my file. I have a presentation = made by Evans on the coolant. Bottom line: lower Heat capacity, lower thermal conductivity, higher = viscosity (all in the wrong direction) Then why use it? In a Diesel over the road truck, you can run at a = higher temperature, and therefore be a little more efficient. We cannot = take advantage of this with the Rotary because of the O-ring seals, so = we only get the negatives and not the positives. Bill Schertz From: Ed Anderson=20 Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2013 1:15 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: waterless coolant? You might want to check what happens to the viscosity of this fluid at = lower temperatures. Its been a while, but as I recall this fluid turns = into heavy syrup at lower temps. You can visualize your water pump = churning (cavitating) in a void of this fluid at low temperatures while = not moving any through your cooling system. =20 The fluid next to the rotors would undoubtedly get hot -while that in = the radiator and water pump may act as a (Temporary) plug to coolant = flow =E2=80=93 until the heated fluid explosively forces the issue. I tried finding the viscosity charts they used to have on the site, but = could not find it.=20 My impression when I looked into this fluid back a few years ago, was = that this heavy viscosity at low temps was probably not much of a draw = back compared to the benefits in a racing motor =E2=80=93 heated = garage, summer temps, etc. But, might be a different story for aircraft = application. Ed Edward L. Anderson Anderson Electronic Enterprises LLC 305 Reefton Road Weddington, NC 28104 http://www.andersonee.com http://www.eicommander.com From: Gordon Alling=20 Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2013 1:05 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: waterless coolant? This appears interesting. I looked at the website and was unable to = find the heat capacity of the fluid. The higher boiling temp may not be = helpful if the heat capacity is such that you need a large delta T to = transfer the same amount of heat as a water-based system. =20 One must also consider the effect of the higher operating temperature on = engine oils. At some temperature, oil loses its lubrication ability. I = don=E2=80=99t know what that temp is but assume it is different for = different oils. Just because the coolant allows higher operating = temperatures, doesn=E2=80=99t mean one should do that. =20 Gordon C. Alling, Jr., PE President acumen Engineering/Analysis, Inc. =20 540-786-2200 www.acumen-ea.com =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On = Behalf Of Michael Silvius Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2013 1:19 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] waterless coolant? =20 While on the subject of cooling, I am curious if anyone has tried the = waterless coolant? Seems to offer some advantages, namely higher boiling = boint and low pressure, is there any reason it should not be used in our = aplication? http://www.evanscooling.com/ =20 Michael No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3408 / Virus Database: 3222/6738 - Release Date: = 10/10/13 ------=_NextPart_000_0042_01CEC5C6.FDA8AED0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Next time I am at my hanger, I will pull my file. I have a = presentation=20 made by Evans on the coolant.
 
Bottom line: lower Heat capacity, lower thermal conductivity, = higher=20 viscosity (all in the wrong direction)
 
Then why use it? In a Diesel over the road truck, you can run at a = higher=20 temperature, and therefore be a little more efficient. We cannot take = advantage=20 of this with the Rotary because of the O-ring seals, so we only get the=20 negatives and not the positives.
 
Bill Schertz
 
Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2013 1:15 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: waterless = coolant?
 
You might want to check what happens to the viscosity of this fluid = at=20 lower temperatures.  Its been a while, but as I recall this = fluid =20 turns into heavy syrup at lower temps.  You can visualize your = water pump=20 churning (cavitating)  in a void of this fluid at low temperatures = while=20 not moving any through your cooling system. 
 
The fluid next to the rotors would undoubtedly get hot  -while = that in=20 the radiator and water pump may act as a (Temporary) plug to coolant = flow =E2=80=93=20 until the heated fluid explosively forces the issue.
 
I tried finding the viscosity charts they used to have on the site, = but=20 could not find it.
 
My impression when I looked into this fluid back a few years ago, = was that=20 this heavy viscosity at low temps was probably not much of a draw = back =20 compared to the benefits in a racing motor =E2=80=93 heated garage, = summer temps,=20 etc.  But, might be a different story for aircraft = application.
 
Ed
 
Edward L.=20 Anderson
Anderson Electronic Enterprises LLC
305 Reefton=20 Road
Weddington, NC=20 28104
http://www.andersonee.com
http://www.eicommander.com
 
Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2013 1:05 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: waterless = coolant?
 

This=20 appears interesting.  I looked at the website and was unable to = find the=20 heat capacity of the fluid.  The higher boiling temp may not be = helpful if=20 the heat capacity is such that you need a large delta T to transfer the = same=20 amount of heat as a water-based system.

 

One=20 must also consider the effect of the higher operating temperature on = engine=20 oils.  At some temperature, oil loses its lubrication = ability.  I=20 don=E2=80=99t know what that temp is but assume it is different for = different=20 oils.  Just because the coolant allows higher operating = temperatures,=20 doesn=E2=80=99t mean one should do that.

 

Gordon=20 C. Alling, Jr., PE

President

acumen=20 Engineering/Analysis,=20 Inc.

 

540-786-2200

www.acumen-ea.com

 

From: Rotary = motors in=20 aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of = Michael=20 Silvius
Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2013 1:19 PM
To: = Rotary=20 motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] waterless=20 coolant?

 

While on the = subject of=20 cooling, I am curious if anyone has tried the waterless coolant? Seems = to offer=20 some advantages, namely higher boiling boint and low pressure, is there = any=20 reason it should not be used in our = aplication?

http://www.evanscooling.com/

 

Michael

No virus found in this=20 message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.3408 / = Virus=20 Database: 3222/6738 - Release Date:=20 10/10/13

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