Tracy,

See Bobby's comments regarding my MAP at idle.  My engine idles at
about 17.5 - 18" MAP, but the MAP will drop lower when slightly off
idle.  I attribute this to the greater overlap of the p-port design.
Makes tuning a little more challenging though.

A while back I had posted a question about "normal" MAP readings for
p-port engines but never got a reply.  I guess I'm in unchartered
territory.

Mark

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "Bobby J. Hughes" <bhughes@qnsi.net>
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2012 09:24:06 -0500
Subject: FW: [FlyRotary] Re: PP engine advice?
To: Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.com>

Might tell Tracy about your 18" MP at idle and slightly lower MP off
idle. The other builders may be fighting the same issue. It would also
be interesting to know if they are seeing MP this high in their
installation.

Bobby

-----Original Message-----
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On
Behalf Of Mark Steitle
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2012 8:32 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: PP engine advice?

Tracy,

I ended up replacing the slide throttle with three individual 46mm
throttle bodies.  I too had trouble getting stable manifold pressure
readings from the oil injection ports, so I installed MP taps just
downstream of the butterflies in the TB's, one for each TB.  They are
tee'd together near the engine.  That seems to be working just fine.
I'm using the oil injection pump instead of pre-mix, so the oil
injection ports are being used as originally intended by Mazda.

If they are using a slide throttle, then the primary injectors should be
located downstream of the slide else fuel will puddle on the upstream
side during low throttle operation causing rough running.

Update:  The root of my tuning problems seems to have been the missing
injector diodes.  Once I installed the diodes, the engine idle was much
improved and tuning has been a breeze.

Mark


On 8/5/12, Tracy <rwstracy@gmail.com> wrote:

Mark. S.  (and anyone else with PP engine experience)

How did you end up getting a usable MP signal for the EC2/3?    I have
another couple of builders who took Paul L's advice and used PP

engines with

slide throttle mounted right to the ports.   They are not having any

luck

getting a stable MP using the oil injection ports on the rotor

housing.

Did you ever come up with a good solution?

Thanks,
Tracy Crook

Sent from my iPad

On Aug 5, 2012, at 9:41 PM, Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.com> wrote:

Charlie,

My system uses those EFI filters also.  They are Fram p/n G3727.
They take a Saginaw fitting on the filter side (see pic).  I don't
recall where I purchased my AN-Saginaw fittings.

Mark S.

On Sun, Aug 5, 2012 at 7:16 PM, Charlie England
<ceengland@bellsouth.net>
wrote:
I'm not flying yet, but I more or less copied Ed Anderson's filter
configuration: each high pressure pump feeds a separate GM inline
filter, with the outputs from the filters T'd back together to feed

the regulator.

There are AN adapters that screw into the filter. Attached is the
only pic I could find. The pumps are off the bottom of the pic.

Ed, do you have the NAPA # handy?

Charlie


On 08/05/2012 03:35 PM, David Leonard wrote:

So my next question is how small of filtration do we need?  ie, what

is the size of a particle that will fit through the injector nozzle

easily?

I was using the Earls sintered bronze element at 35microns, but I
also could use the SS screen version at 85 mic.  The Peterson in
line 600 series is MUCH more expensive and comes in 45, 60, and 100
micron SS screens.

http://www.jegs.com/p/Peterson-Fluid-Systems/Peterson-600-Series-Fue
l-Filters/1528539/10002/-1

 Those do have more surface area but will be a hassle for me to
retrofit, and not sure they are worth 4x the price of the earls.
Lots of other brands I have  not explored yet.

I like the sintered bronze for strength and durability.  Other

opinions?

Dave Leonard

On Sun, Aug 5, 2012 at 12:42 PM, David Leonard <wdleonard@gmail.com>
wrote:
Yea, mine is an Earls cleanable high pressure with maybe 10 sq cm
worth of area.  Will look into the Peterson.  Thanks Tracy.

Dave Leonard

On Sun, Aug 5, 2012 at 10:48 AM, Tracy <rwstracy@gmail.com> wrote:
Al probably means the filter that's on factory in-tank pumps.  OK,

but

very hard to implement on RV wet-wing tanks.   I used a gascolator

for

low side filter on my -4.  Worked OK and when it clogged,  switching

on the backup pump with main pump caused the screen disk to collapse

and let

fuel bypass it.   which is better than no fuel at
all but not an ideal solution.

On the -8 i used a cleanable  Peterson filter with TONS of filter

area,

works great.   That was a replacement for the Summit Racing fuel

filter

with a filter element disk the size of a nickel.  It clogged up in
about about 5 hours of flight.

Tracy

Sent from my iPad

On Aug 5, 2012, at 10:18 AM, David Leonard <wdleonard@gmail.com>

wrote:

Yes, it was the high side filter.  I don't have any low side

filters.

Would be interested in a source for the self-cleaning fool-proof
low side filters that Al mentions.

--
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net

On Sun, Aug 5, 2012 at 6:34 AM, Tracy <rwstracy@gmail.com> wrote:
I assume Al is referring to the pump intake side  filter.    So for

the

record, was it the inlet side or the high pressure side filter that

clogged?  ( Both are needed ) From the symptoms I'm guessing high
side but not sure.

BTW,  nice job!

Tracy

Sent from my iPad

On Aug 4, 2012, at 3:53 PM, "Al Wick" <alwick@juno.com> wrote:

As long as your are rebuilding, tremendous safety improvement by
using same fuel filter method that all cars use. No matter how
much foreign material you throw at it, it can't clog. It minimizes

pressure drop, so lower risk of vapor lock. Self cleaning filter.

Self priming pumps.

-Al Wick
Cozy IV powered by RDM Subaru 3.0R.
Expert at failure prevention methods, N9032U 240+ hours from
Portland, Oregon Glass panel design, Subaru install, Prop
construct, Risk assessment
info:
http://www.ez.org/pages/alwick/index.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Whaley
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2012 1:38 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Rotary Forced Landing

Dave, having gone through recently what you just experienced I
would like to say GOOD JOB on getting down safely and with such
little damage.  Anyway at 1500 AGL there isn't a lot of time ...
obviously you made the right choices.

Jeff

(Rebuilding my Ride)



From:    David Leonard <wdleonard@gmail.com>
Subject:    Re: [FlyRotary] Fw: Fw: [FlyRotary] Rotary Forced

Landing

Date:    Fri, 3 Aug 2012 06:18:47 -0700
To:    Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>    Sigh..

Yup, that was me. I have been meaning to fess up. We were at about

1500 agl when the fuses blew on my fuel pumps. I was in a close
formation of
40 aircraft at the time too. I think I got some bad MOGAS
somewhere in Iowa as I did notice my fuel return flow creep
downward but didn't think it was a big problem.

On the incident flight, a one hour formation flight from SQI for a

mass arrival at OSH, the return fuel flow drifted down to zero. I
actually though it was a sensor problem. I didn't have the ability

to give it a lot of attention because we were in a loose
formation. Soon after we pulled it together for a tight formation
power switched off. I tried to find a road, but quickly ran out of

options and put it down in a bean field. With the beans hitting
the flaps it brought me to a stop in about 200ft, just before I
would have gone into the full grown corn. As mentioned, wheel
pants broke in half but no other damage besides pulling bean
leaves out of every nook and cranny. The farmers were very nice,
and the stories are true... they have attractive daughters. They

were out there barefoot in their Sunday best enjoying the excitement.

Helped me clean the fuel filter and replace the fuses. Within a
couple of hours I was able to take off from one of their driveways

as they all waived good bye (but strangely, no one took me up on
my offer for a ride).

Landed at OSH just before dark to a reserved parking space and a
very warm reception from the formation group and friends. Great
support from everyone all around, though I am trying to avoid the
obvious new call signs they are trying to give me.

--
David Leonard
This message, and the documents attached hereto, is intended only
for the addressee and may contain privileged or confidential

information.

Any unauthorized disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you have
received this message in error, please notify us immediately so
that we may correct our internal records. Please then delete the
original message. Thank you.

--
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net



--
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net

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