X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-bk0-f52.google.com ([209.85.214.52] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.5) with ESMTPS id 5591669 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 17:29:52 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.214.52; envelope-from=msteitle@gmail.com Received: by bkcjc3 with SMTP id jc3so2760973bkc.25 for ; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 14:29:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=CaLBQzqFwnMiGuIhKvilYA5AzOsqzEVN4FEj89IttAg=; b=UxgHdGTsWnk5PQp1MS+p6vkqO/jh8FieuxZ2AohxKcbcsfeqKNY7rVuqyewO616sEm RXHkA6X5RlreK4gRybRCmT85FO59Wz6ADnWzjhLRCac8wHV+14G/2ZjVfFZqKyIXnPR8 ZMfi4icSJ98a1JJH6pyl7fngdubrEF7x0wa+C+jOk8lf5mcRo3N8biM0ai5t3nmcrZak PNNHy16LNi90BdlaprmbBvVMcR//L0eB6hAKv8UdZPwaur4IyDgJzToNEre+gs10OxwG IqC0KyZ0V4vPgXdHekfYK0drwV6eJwAgPnWtNo7vPI14yUDLfXjqffkjGLgoaSEHtaZx b/OA== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.205.118.9 with SMTP id fo9mr9482228bkc.58.1339363756524; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 14:29:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.97.194 with HTTP; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 14:29:16 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 16:29:16 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: First flight - Velocity N17010 From: Mark Steitle To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0ce0d2f0eec4d304c224ecf2 --000e0ce0d2f0eec4d304c224ecf2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Chris, That's correct, the oil temp is measured after the coolers, coolant is measured coming out of the engine (pre-radiator). You probably don't have an oil temp problem after all. Mark S. On Sun, Jun 10, 2012 at 2:52 PM, Chris Barber wrote: > Ok, here is new information to me. I posted on the > Velocity list regarding my oil temps and was informed that oil temperature > should be measured coming OUT of the coolers, not out of the engine like I > have set up. > > This is just the opposite from the way the factory has the coolant > plumbing run as the stock coolant temperature sensor is near the thermostat > housing as it comes out of the engine and into the radiator. I do not know > where the stock oil sensor is located (if I did, I now forget) but Al G. > and John Dibble state the temp should be taken for oil coming out of the > coolers. Heck, if this is the case, my oil may be quite a bit cooler than > I was thinking. Opinions please. It should not be too difficult to add a > sensor to where the oil enters the engine. Don't know if the Delta will be > much, but perhaps enough.... > > What say Ye? > > Chris > ------------------------------ > *From:* Chris Barber > *Sent:* Sunday, June 10, 2012 1:26 PM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* RE: [FlyRotary] Re: First flight - Velocity N17010 > > I reviewed my very short and shaky video more. On Downwind, it shows a > GPS speed of 127 kts. The rotary is turning at 6870 RPM (up about > 600 RPM from static) with a MAP of 24.7 (1.5 lb spring in the waste gate). > Coolant Temp was 187 degrees and oil temp was 224. Oil pressure and > Coolant pressure numbers could not be read but the "gauges" on the Dynonwere in the green. > > > > A few minutes later I was able to get another picture of my engine data > taken as I was rolling off the active. These reading are about 30 seconds > after the wheels touch down. I know it is 30 seconds since I can hear the > wheels touching the pavement since my I-phone continued to record even > though it was face down in my passenger seat. Engine RPM was 2489 and > the coolant was down to 175. More interesting was that the oil temp had > already dropped to 204 (20 degree drop). Yeah, still higher than I like > but a pretty big drop a matter of a few minutes. I do think oil takes > longer to read delta T's than coolant...but I could be damned wrong on that. > > > > Perhaps I just noticed the oil enough after a full power climb before it > had a chance to adapt and cool a bit?? > > Chris > ------------------------------ > *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] on behalf > of CozyGirrrl@aol.com [CozyGirrrl@aol.com] > *Sent:* Saturday, June 09, 2012 11:52 PM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: First flight - Velocity N17010 > > Congratulations Chris! I knew you'd do it this morning. Please consider > yourself hugged by both of us. > What wastegate are you using with that spring? > > > Chrissi & Randi > www.CozyGirrrl.com > CG Products, Custom Aircraft Hardware > Chairwomen, Sun-N-Fun Engine Workshop > > In a message dated 6/9/2012 1:17:14 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > cbarber@texasattorney.net writes: > > Didn't notice MAP. Since I am concerned about detonation I have the > weakest spring installed. It is 1.5 lbs. > > Sent from my iPhone 4 > > On Jun 9, 2012, at 12:42 PM, "Kelly Troyer" wrote: > > YAA-HOO Chris !!.................Congrats and keep the reports > coming............Be interested in if your oil temp was just > hi power takeoff temp that would come down with reduced power and more > airspeed............Did you notice what > MAP was (amount of boost) ??......................<:) > > Kelly Troyer > > On Sat, Jun 9, 2012 at 12:24 PM, Bobby J. Hughes wrote: > >> Congrats Chris. Be safe and keep the reports coming. Does your Dynon >> have ant data logging capability? >> >> Bobby >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Jun 9, 2012, at 11:53 AM, "Chris Barber" >> wrote: >> >> June 9, 2002 - A trailer pulled up in front of a simple but >> comfortable home in Houston. >> >> Lots of trails, tribulations blood, time, money, recreation, education, >> fun, friendships, anger, frustration, problem solving, sweat, pondering >> etc....repeat and repeat again and again. >> >> Fast forward (it did go fast) >> >> June 9, 2012 - Ellington Field - A lone, very nervous man arrives at the >> airport shortly before 0900 hrs. Pushes onto the ramp the contraption >> composed of fiberglass, metal et al and the ingredients listed above. He >> sits down and writes a simple holographic (hand written) will and short >> note with information to call "Mom" and work. Calls tower to relay intent >> via the phone. >> >> Preflights the contraption. Gets in, goes though basic Checklist. Cranks >> up the engine, which fires right up at about 0920 hrs. Taxi to Juliet. >> Calls tower to verify intent and to taxi to active, 35L. Taxis to Taxiway >> Echo. Checks temps. Pushing 195 with OAT reading 95 degrees (geesh it is >> only about 0930 hrs). >> >> Cleared to take active and hold. Taxied out. Lined up castering nose >> wheel down center stripe. Cleared to take off. Added power and engine >> smoothly ran up. Airspeed coming in. 30 kts...50 kts ....60 kts, >> approximate rotation speed. Lots of runway (9000 ft).....hold it....70 >> kts....72 kts... Slight pull on the yoke....AIRBORNE!!! Leaped into ground >> effect. Screw this, pulled back on yoke and I am climbing. Jiggled the yoke >> a bit to verify control authority. >> >> Climbed to about 400 feet and turned right pattern to crosswind. The >> Dynon altitude and airspeed seem to be working. That's reassuring. Pattern >> altitude is only 600 feet and I was there already as I turned to downwind. >> Leveled off and noticed the clouds were lower than reported and appeared on >> the ground. Also, noticed coolant temps had dropped to 190....but oil temps >> were flashing at me and had reached 225 (synthetic Royal Purple). Damn. Ok. >> Fly the airplane, the oil is not at not a critical level. , but let's just >> finish the pattern and land. I grabbed my phone while on downwind and >> attempted to record some data but while I can hear the engine the video is >> awful....uh, in my defense, I was a bit distracted and way more concerned >> with flying. I called the tower and informed them I was coming in. I think >> they were looking out for me since as I turned to base I noticed the fire >> department staged just off the runways threshold >> >> I noted I was a bit far out on down wind so I stared easing over to >> turn base. Wow. I really overshot it as I blew by the runway and had to use >> full right rudder to get back to the runway. I wish I had had more rudder. >> In hindsight I think I was not using much aileron as I was cognoscente that >> I had no idea of stall characteristics so I did not yet wish too strep a >> turn. I was able to get over the runway and dump some altitude as I got >> over the numbers and pulled power. Crap, I am fast. I am lined up and right >> on the numbers but at 95 kts. I come and touchdown and bounced. Pulled >> power to idles and settled down easily but fast at 90 and rolled out and >> exited at Delta. The tower was clearing me back to the city hangars as I >> was exiting the active. I taxi back and noticed the oil temps had decreased >> but I don't recall how much, just noticed they were lower. >> >> I got back to my hangar and popped the door and shut her down. The >> engine went silent without any hissing or gushing. >> >> I called my mom. >> >> I am mowing informing the world. >> >> I did a walk around and did not see anything missing. I am about to >> pull the cowl and check things out. >> >> I did notice I did not develop a slight hand shaking untill after I >> landed and exited the aircraft. ;-) Hey, how about that, it really is an >> aircraft now. Ten years to the day following delivery. >> >> Thank you for your support. >> >> Christopher Barber, JD >> Houston, Ellington Field (EFD) >> Velocity N17010 >> Turbo Rotary 13b >> RWS Re-drive and engine computers >> Dynon Skyview >> Mistral intake >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone 4 >> >> > > > --000e0ce0d2f0eec4d304c224ecf2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Chris,=A0

That's correct, the oil temp is measured a= fter the coolers, coolant is measured coming out of the engine (pre-radiato= r). =A0You probably don't have an oil temp problem after all. =A0
=

Mark S.=A0

On Sun, Jun 10,= 2012 at 2:52 PM, Chris Barber <cbarber@texasattorney.net><= /span> wrote:

Ok, here is new information to me.=A0 I posted on the Velocity=A0list=A0= regarding my oil temps=A0and was informed that oil temperature should be me= asured coming OUT of the coolers, not out of the engine like I have set up.= =A0

This is just the opposite from the way the factory has the coolant plumb= ing run as the stock coolant temperature sensor is near the thermostat hous= ing as it comes out of the engine and into the radiator.=A0 I do not know w= here the stock oil sensor is located (if I did, I now forget) but Al G. and John Dibble state the temp should b= e taken for oil coming out of the coolers.=A0 Heck, if this is the case, my= oil may be quite a bit cooler than I was thinking.=A0 Opinions please.=A0 = It should not be too difficult to add a sensor to where the oil enters the engine.=A0 Don't know if the Delt= a will be much, but perhaps enough....

What say Ye?

Chris

Fro= m: Chris Barber
Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2012 1:26 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: First flight - Velocity N17010

I reviewed my very short and shaky video more.=A0 On Downwind, it shows = a GPS speed of 127 kts.=A0 The rotary is turning at 6870 RPM = (up about 600=A0RPM from static)=A0with a MAP of 24.7 (1.5 lb spring in the= waste gate).=A0 Coolant Temp was 187 degrees and oil temp was 224.=A0 Oil pressure and Coolant pressure numbers could n= ot be read but the "gauges" on the=A0Dynon w= ere in the green.

=A0

A few minutes later I was able to get another=A0picture of my=A0e= ngine data taken as I was rolling off the active.=A0 These reading a= re about 30 seconds after the wheels touch down.=A0 I know it is 30 seconds= since I can hear the wheels touching the pavement since my=A0I-phone continued to record even though it was = face down in my=A0passenger seat.=A0 Engine RPM was 2489 and the coo= lant was down to 175.=A0 More interesting was that the oil temp had already= dropped to 204 (20 degree drop).=A0 Yeah, still higher than I like but a pretty big drop a matter of a few minutes. = I do think oil takes longer to read delta T's than coolant...but I coul= d be damned wrong on that.

=A0

Perhaps I just noticed the oil enough after a full power climb before it= had a chance to=A0adapt and cool a bit??

=A0
Chris
Congratulations Chris! I knew you'd do it this morning. Please con= sider yourself hugged by both of us.
What wastegate are you using with that spring?
=A0
=A0
Chrissi & Randi
www.CozyGirrrl.com=
CG Products, Custom Aircraft Hardware
Chairwomen, Sun-N-Fun Engine Workshop
=A0
In a message dated 6/9/2012 1:17:14 P.M. Central Daylight Time, cbarber@texasattor= ney.net writes:
Didn't notice MAP. Since I am concerned about detonation I have th= e weakest spring installed. It is 1.5 lbs.=A0

Sent from my iPhone 4

On Jun 9, 2012, at 12:42 PM, "Kelly Troyer" <kelt= ro@gmail.com> wrote:

YAA-HOO Chris !!.................Congrats and keep the reports coming.= ...........Be interested in if your oil temp was just
hi power takeoff temp that would come down with reduced power and more= airspeed............Did you notice what
MAP was (amount of boost) ??......................<:)
=A0
Kelly Troyer

On Sat, Jun 9, 2012 at 12:24 PM, Bobby J. Hughes= <bhughes@qnsi.net> wrote:
Congrats Chris. =A0Be safe and keep the reports coming. Does your Dyno= n have ant data logging capability?

Bobby

Sent from my iPad

On Jun 9, 2012, at 11:53 AM, "Chris Barber" <cbarber@texasattorney.net> wrote:

June 9, 2002 - A trailer pulled up in front of a simple but comf= ortable home in Houston.=A0

Lots of trails, tribulations blood, time, money, recreation, educatio= n, fun, friendships, anger, frustration, problem solving, sweat, pondering = etc....repeat and repeat again and again.=A0

Fast forward (it did go fast)

June 9, 2012=A0- Ellington Field - A lone, very nervous man ar= rives at the airport shortly before 0900 hrs. Pushes onto the ramp the cont= raption composed of fiberglass, metal et al and the ingredients listed abov= e. He sits down and writes a simple holographic (hand written) will and short note with information to call &q= uot;Mom" and work. Calls tower to relay intent via the phone.
Preflights the contraption. Gets in, goes though basic Checklist. Cra= nks up the engine, which fires right up at about 0920 hrs. Taxi to Juliet. = Calls tower to verify intent and to taxi to active, 35L. Taxis to Taxiway E= cho. Checks temps. Pushing 195 with OAT reading 95 degrees (geesh it is only about 0930 hrs).=A0

Cleared to take active and hold. Taxied out. Lined up castering nose = wheel down center stripe. Cleared to take off. Added power and engine smoot= hly ran up. Airspeed coming in. 30 kts...50 kts ....60 kts, approximate rot= ation speed. Lots of runway (9000 ft).....hold it....70 kts....72 kts... Slight pull on the yoke....AIRBORNE= !!! Leaped into ground effect. Screw this, pulled back on yoke and I am cli= mbing. Jiggled the yoke a bit to verify=A0control authority.= =A0

Climbed to about 400 feet and turned right pattern to crosswind. The D= ynon altitude and airspeed seem to be working. That's reassuring. Patte= rn altitude is only 600 feet and I was there already as I turned to downwin= d. Leveled off and noticed the clouds were lower than reported and appeared on the ground. Also, noticed coolant= temps had dropped to 190....but oil temps were flashing at me and had reac= hed 225 (synthetic Royal Purple). Damn. Ok. Fly the airplane, the oil is no= t at not a critical level. , but let's just finish the pattern and land. I grabbed my phone while on do= wnwind and attempted to record some data but while I can hear the engine th= e video is =A0awful....uh, in my defense, I was a bit distracted and way mo= re concerned with flying. I called the tower and informed them I was coming in. I think they were looking out for= me since as I turned to base I noticed the fire department staged just off= the runways threshold

I noted I was a bit far out on down wind so I stared easing over to tu= rn base. Wow. I really overshot it as I blew by the runway and had to use f= ull right rudder to get back to the runway. I wish I had had more rudder. I= n hindsight I think I was not using much aileron as I was cognoscente that I had no idea of stall characterist= ics so I did not yet wish too strep a turn. I was able to get over the runw= ay and dump some altitude as I got over the numbers and pulled power. Crap,= I am fast. I am lined up and right on the numbers but at 95 kts. I come and touchdown and bounced. Pulled pow= er to idles and settled down easily but fast at 90 and rolled out and exite= d at Delta. The tower was clearing me back to the city hangars as I was exi= ting the active. I taxi back and noticed the oil temps had decreased but I don't recall how much, just = noticed they were lower.

I got back to my hangar and popped the door and shut her down. The eng= ine went silent without any hissing or gushing.=A0

I called my mom.=A0

I am mowing informing the world.=A0

I did a walk around and did not see anything missing. I am about to pu= ll the cowl and check things out.=A0

I did notice I did not develop a slight hand shaking untill after I la= nded and exited the aircraft. ;-) Hey, how=A0about that, it really is= an aircraft now. Ten years to the day following delivery.=A0

Thank you for your support.=A0

Christopher Barber, JD
Houston, Ellington Field (EFD)
Velocity N17010
Turbo Rotary 13b
RWS Re-drive and engine computers
Dynon Skyview
Mistral intake


Sent from my iPhone 4





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