X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-wi0-f180.google.com ([209.85.212.180] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.3) with ESMTPS id 5358538 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 20 Jan 2012 22:14:21 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.212.180; envelope-from=msteitle@gmail.com Received: by wibhm6 with SMTP id hm6so831959wib.25 for ; Fri, 20 Jan 2012 19:13:46 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=z5GUvOWaL7IKcNuI1k+qB8iwnsRr9Scqzmd5yZQv5h0=; b=go+Rh1Z/8JDPTNGg+V6tyi/AP0jxK2mmktgH4N9+eRgAcq7b9ge+7w0y001I0bHzJl ylCpBjjq+MMDLi54g9//egwryzS9t5ZucdoKpvWZ+xV5iuliMoRY78aqFx6/A0DQQg+q +UEBxfBFhKGI/ufL9esOQjaXxEgpoPbeUzIIU= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.180.100.228 with SMTP id fb4mr606569wib.1.1327115626320; Fri, 20 Jan 2012 19:13:46 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.223.105.211 with HTTP; Fri, 20 Jan 2012 19:13:46 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 21:13:46 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: P-port breakthrough From: Mark Steitle To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d0418256e7b914004b7012f25 --f46d0418256e7b914004b7012f25 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Charlie, The reservoir idea is the next thing I'll try if this doesn't work out. But so far, this looks good. Mark On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 8:15 PM, Charlie England wrote: > Assuming well designed intake & exhaust manifolds (& substantially equal > MAP in each rotor measured at the same intake position of each rotor), do > you need 3 feeds to one sensor? Have you tried using just one, with a small > air reservoir for 'inertial damping' (averaging) of the fluctuating MAP on > that line? I'd expect that the computer is taking 'snapshots' of MAP, & if > there's no plenum to give it an averaged pressure to look at, then the > snapshots would be all over the map (pardon the pun...). Also, I assume > that there's no way to force the computer to take its snapshot a > user-selectable point in the intake cycle, right? > > Charlie > > > On 01/20/2012 07:02 PM, Mark Steitle wrote: > > Tracy, > > OK, what you said just registered in the grey matter. Any ideas on what > to do if the MAP does't come up fast enough resulting in bogging? > Calibrated air bleeds? > > Mark > > On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 6:46 PM, Mark Steitle wrote: > >> Tracy, >> >> Thanks, I'll check that, but remember... I've got three of those >> "suckers" and they're working overtime. >> >> Mark >> >> On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 5:27 PM, Tracy wrote: >> >>> Sounds like it's working for you but if those check valves are "good" >>> ie, don't leak, the MP won't go up fast enough at the EC2/3 port and the >>> engine will probably bog down and die when you open the throttle >>> (especially if done rapidly).. Check your throttle response to be sure >>> the EC2/3 sees the true MP when you go to WFO. >>> >>> Tracy >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 6:04 PM, Mark Steitle wrote: >>> >>>> I made a major breakthrough today. In preparation for hooking up my >>>> new Hytek data logger, I decided that it would be a good idea to install >>>> check valves in the vacuum lines leading from each rotor housing. (For >>>> those who are unaware, I am running a peripheral port 3-rotor with a slide >>>> throttle TB.) My system measures MAP from the unused oil injection ports >>>> in each rotor housing. Not sure what possessed me to do a ground run right >>>> then, but I decided to do a ground run after installing the check valves. >>>> Now keep in mind that typical MAP readings at idle up to this point was >>>> approx. 17". This has been bugging me, but it didn't stop me from flying. >>>> Well, today's MAP readings were in the 14.4" - 15.0" range. Then it >>>> dawned on me that the way the vacuum lines were plumbed the EC-2 would see >>>> an average of all three rotors. Since each rotor is 120* (crank degrees) >>>> apart in their 4-stroke cycle, the MAP would be quite a bit different for >>>> each rotor. By installing check valves in the vacuum lines, I have now >>>> isolated each rotor from the other two and am measuring the lowest vacuum. >>>> Idle is now down to a respectable 1500 rpm, but the mixture has gone way >>>> lean, so it appears that a re-tune is in order. I'll probably re-set the >>>> EC-2 to the factory defaults and start the process over from the very >>>> beginning. >>>> >>>> I would like to strongly suggest to anyone that is measuring MAP in >>>> the rotor housings to install check valves in each of the lines. Your >>>> EC-2/3 will thank you for it. >>>> >>>> Mark >>>> >>> >>> >> > > --f46d0418256e7b914004b7012f25 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Charlie,=A0

The reservoir idea is the next thing I'l= l try if this doesn't work out. =A0But so far, this looks good.

Mark=A0

On Fri, Jan 20,= 2012 at 8:15 PM, Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net> wrote:
=20 =20 =20
Assuming well designed intake & exhaust manifolds (& substantially equal MAP in each rotor measured at the same intake position of each rotor), do you need 3 feeds to one sensor? Have you tried using just one, with a small air reservoir for 'inertial damping' (averaging) of the fluctuating MAP on that line? I'd e= xpect that the computer is taking 'snapshots' of MAP, & if there&= #39;s no plenum to give it an averaged pressure to look at, then the snapshots would be all over the map (pardon the pun...). Also, I assume that there's no way to force the computer to take its snapshot a user-selectable point in the intake cycle, right?

Charlie


On 01/20/2012 07:02 PM, Mark Steitle wrote:
Tracy,=A0

OK, what you said just registered in the grey matter. =A0Any ideas on what to do if the MAP does't come up fast enough resulting in bogging? =A0Calibrated air bleeds?

Mark

On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 6:46 PM, Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.com> wrote:
Tracy,=A0

Thanks,=A0I'll check that, but remember... I've go= t three of those "suckers" and they're working overtime= .

Mark =A0

On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 5:27 PM, Tracy <rwstracy@gmail.com> wrote:
Sounds like it's working for you but if those check valves are "good" ie, don't leak,=A0 the MP won= 9;t go up fast enough at the EC2/3 port and the engine will probably bog down and die when you open the throttle (especially if done rapidly)..=A0=A0 Check your throttle response to be sure the EC2/3 sees the true MP when you go to WFO.

Tracy

=A0

On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 6:04 PM, Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.com>= wrote:
I made a major breakthrough today. =A0In preparation for hooking up my new Hytek data logger, I decided that it would be a good idea to install check valves in the vacuum lines leading from each rotor housing. =A0(For those who are unaware, I am running a peripheral port 3-rotor with a slide throttle TB.) =A0My system measures MAP from the unused oil injection ports in each rotor housing. =A0Not sure what possessed me to do a ground run right then, but I decided to do a ground run after installing the check valves. =A0Now keep in mind that typical MAP readings at idle up to this point was approx. 17". =A0This has been bugging me, = but it didn't stop me from flying. =A0Well, today's MAP readings were in the 14.4"= - 15.0" range. =A0Then it dawned on me that = the way the vacuum lines were plumbed the EC-2 would see an average of all three rotors. =A0Since each rotor is 120* (crank degrees) apart in their 4-stroke cycle, the MAP would be quite a bit different for each rotor. =A0By installing check valves in the vacuum lines, I have now isolated each rotor from the other two and am measuring the lowest vacuum. =A0Idle is now down to a respectable 1500 rpm, but the mixture has gone way lean, so it appears that a re-tune is in order. =A0I'll probably re-set the EC-2 to the factory defaults and start the process over from the very beginning. =A0

I would like to strongly suggest to anyone that is measuring MAP in the rotor housings to install check valves in each of the lines. =A0Your EC-2/3 will thank you for it. =A0

Mark





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