X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from nm27-vm0.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com ([98.139.91.232] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.1) with SMTP id 5126079 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 15 Sep 2011 17:31:53 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=98.139.91.232; envelope-from=roundrocktom@yahoo.com Received: from [98.139.91.62] by nm27.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Sep 2011 21:31:19 -0000 Received: from [98.139.91.56] by tm2.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Sep 2011 21:31:19 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1056.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Sep 2011 21:31:19 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 458650.98029.bm@omp1056.mail.sp2.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 50383 invoked by uid 60001); 15 Sep 2011 21:31:19 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s1024; t=1316122279; bh=V0c/6BDNF48aTs8X5sL8dmamKWK4Siu0hUAfc5K59KM=; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=ZtiFRllRrwV2hcxZKUpSpfgEt67UY/NBfQ4rO3hiN0jSIOQLCu68qX6Jd24/itDtJjqCzacT2/vwyCU9qXJGJD9WFpcSg+UBqQ0YYA/9uvmZx7WLLbFpmcn+8uyI35PAt5JxY+mSLx2Rh4t6/oj6GgAF11uQdVAu3XYkHH0couI= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=dTRB7TR4zpw5MeCm0IzfkmomOHNFwBQIt5isGYwChPGoQ21tJk1+1SOMNSEO7i58s8BfIPn7Q4E+lI5zjJ+i8CjWrTdfWB2h/By5aoRh972Cck50y6k2ddCOIF2rgydwuhWeGZMdh7fyvsdMXICOQAC4LqkZ9UL29r5YL0goJaA=; X-YMail-OSG: 63lx_74VM1k1ieJ1akhkg3.Kxx2x3UYiWY_h7lidRD5YVJY woYwRyLQhKxgnvfp29_WNtUVVA2IhDa.vnChPsrI3zmLSgA_73dGT59nl7g0 53qJG.Xx.bXQ2sJBpFVy8gqU1QcvRnqzGiY3.PWpHMCIPQdsJzW1D9MPSaBW jvY7QLr.hWKstoXevBM0lzGrnJ9WBF61tmiQESLwXO2a_kwzwt5fdZiszk9i VxJCMvMdyzYfW2ZO9zVEwvk0robqYYzwPuJmNTuFm12j4Y_VmE0LxtHYftJe N_9FpTr9ohgxqXvezrqHhEKcbHrj7WTI2Sp04AGH4vBKPRLTfRM1xztsSR9F rUnJI.Yue3kPm_rCAgvjZs__IxwoeCY8GiJ7p2b3rvQurzS7rMOXwRd9FBfu l7Qz5YpTnsWPZWF9tcMpNGuv8Mb8xpZaprpBOae.WM3.cgHylF.qAj.chsSg 6fZ3eJbvZ4582w.z0U2W6tom2uX32.U_JHT9JUHQfvcJEKGzwhRs65PQh61f 5CtoDCsNf8AmV Received: from [216.52.185.72] by web111506.mail.gq1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 15 Sep 2011 14:31:19 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.114.317681 References: Message-ID: <1316122279.29483.YahooMailNeo@web111506.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 14:31:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Walter Reply-To: Tom Walter Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: The good news and the bad news...... To: Rotary motors in aircraft In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="1030100336-1333211368-1316122279=:29483" --1030100336-1333211368-1316122279=:29483 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Worth a try!=0A=0AWith a gear running in north south orientation, on sensor= facing west, the other facing east....=A0 Would be simple to rig up=0Aa te= st fixture and try it.=0A=0ASomeone asked about installing the two sensors = shoulder to shoulder.=A0 With a 8" wheel,=A0 a 5 degree offset is about 0.3= 5", which is pretty tight spacing.=A0=A0 If you went 10 degrees, it would w= ork for that limp home mode function (retarded timing).=0A=0AA simple two r= otor solution, is independent ECU systems for front and rear rotors. The tw= o sensors being 180 degrees apart to match rotor faces.=0A=0AFor the Bosch = Systems, we had "limp home" built into ignition chip, with backup from the = camshaft sensor.=A0 If CAS failed, then cam sensor could be use for batch f= iring fuel injectors, and simple ignition spark.=A0=A0=A0 I've told the sto= ry of having the wrong XTAL filter caps on the module.=A0=A0 The Main CPU (= 6805) oscillator didn't start, so the engine went into Limp Home mode... Co= ld Weather Emissions Testing facility.=A0 I wonder if anyone at Fiat still = remembers that one (circa 1985).=A0 25 years later I can chuckle about that= one!=A0 Ljetronic3.1 was a fun project (hybrid on the top of the airflow m= eter).=A0 =0A=0A=0ATom=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: = "CozyGirrrl@aol.com" =0ATo: Rotary motors in aircraft <= flyrotary@lancaironline.net>=0ASent: Thursday, September 15, 2011 4:14 PM= =0ASubject: [FlyRotary] Re: The good news and the bad news......=0A=0A=0ANo= t side by side-=0AIn the placement described we are talking about them faci= ng each other with =0Aa gap between the faces of 0.100~0.125 and the wheel = face between them like an =0Ainterrupter between optical sense and receive.= =0A=A0=0AChrissi & =0ARandi=0Awww.CozyGirrrl.com=0ACG =0AProducts, Custom = Aircraft Hardware=0AChairwomen, Sun-N-Fun Engine Workshop=0A=0A=A0=0AIn a m= essage dated 9/15/2011 4:01:36 P.M. Central Daylight Time, =0Aalwick@juno.c= om writes:=0A=A0=0A>Highly unlikely. I have friends who measure integrity = of signal with oscilloscope. Shielded device with highly directional sensi= tivity. Though they've never measured two side by side. Good theory, thoug= h. =0A>=A0=0A>-al wick=0A>----- Original Message ----- =0A>>From: wrjjrs@ao= l.com =0A>>To: Rotary motors in aircraft =0A>>Sent: Thursday, September 15,= 2011 12:18 PM=0A>>Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: The good news and the bad new= s......=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>There is nothing wrong with that idea. The only conc= ern is that the two sensors may have interference with each other. The ide= a is to put another toothed wheel rotated say a random 33.715 degrees rel= ative to the first wheel. Now you place the second sensor rotated the same= 33.7....etc degrees. So now when you switch sensors the timing is the sam= e. Also the two sensors don't interfere with each other.=0A>>Bill =0A Je= pson=0A>>=0A>>Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless=0A>>=0A>>-----Origina= l =0Amessage-----=0A>>=0A>>From: Chad Robinson =0A>>>To: Rotary motors in aircraft =0A>>>Se= nt: Thu, Sep 15, 2011 17:45:46 GMT+00:00=0A>>>Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: The= good news and the bad news......=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>On 9/15/2011 1:21 PM, T= racy wrote: =0A>>>The CAS references the crank, not the rotor. =C2=A0 Is t= hat. It?=0A>>>>I'm still confused about something myself. Everybody keeps= talking about adding another CAS as requiring it to be "in a different po= sition", with an offset. My 3rd-gen CAS sits on a small bracket just behin= d the toothed wheel on the front shaft. Past that toothed wheel there's a = healthy (from memory: 1.5"?) gap from there to the back of the alternator = pulley.=0A>>>=0A>>>What's to stop me from making a =0A bracket and put= ting a second CAS in that gap, facing backward? It would be =0A in exa= ctly the same position as the current CAS, just facing backward. =0A W= ould they interfere with one another? If so, as an alternative, what =0A = about using a second toothed wheel either on top of the first and before= =0A the alternator pulley, or if side loads were a concern, on the ve= ry end of =0A the shaft past the =0Apulley?=0A>>>=0A>>> --1030100336-1333211368-1316122279=:29483 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Worth a tr= y!

With a gear running i= n north south orientation, on sensor facing west, the other facing east....=   Would be simple to rig up
a test fixture and = try it.

Someone asked ab= out installing the two sensors shoulder to shoulder.  With a 8" wheel,=   a 5 degree offset is about 0.35", which is pretty tight spacing.&nbs= p;  If you went 10 degrees, it would work for that limp home mode func= tion (retarded timing).

= A simple two rotor solution, is independent ECU systems for front and rear = rotors. The two sensors being 180 degrees apart to match rotor faces.

For the Bosch Systems, we had "limp home" built into ignition chip, with backup from the camshaft= sensor.  If CAS failed, then cam sensor could be use for batch firing= fuel injectors, and simple ignition spark.    I've told the= story of having the wrong XTAL filter caps on the module.   The = Main CPU (6805) oscillator didn't start, so the engine went into Limp Home = mode... Cold Weather Emissions Testing facility.  I wonder if anyone a= t Fiat still remembers that one (circa 1985).  25 years later I can ch= uckle about that one!  Ljetronic3.1 was a fun project (hybrid on the t= op of the airflow meter). 

Tom

From: "CozyGirrrl@aol.com" <Cozy= Girrrl@aol.com>
To: = Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2011 4= :14 PM
Subject: [FlyRot= ary] Re: The good news and the bad news......

=0A=0A =0A =0A=0A=0A
Not side by side-
=0AIn the placement described we are talking about them facing each other wit= h =0Aa gap between the faces of 0.100~0.125 and the wheel face between them= like an =0Ainterrupter between optical sense and receive.
=0A
&n= bsp;
=0A
Chri= ssi & =0ARandi
www.CozyGirrrl.com
CG =0AProducts, Custom Aircr= aft Hardware
Chairwomen, Sun-N-Fun Engine Workshop
=0A
 =0A
=0A
In a message dated 9/15/2011 4:01:36 P.M. Central Dayligh= t Time, =0Aalwick@juno.com writes:
=0A
=0A <concern is that the two sensors may have =0A int= erference with each other.
=0A
 
=0A
Highly unlikely. I have friend= s who measure integrity of =0A signal with oscilloscope. Shielded device w= ith highly directional sensitivity. =0A Though they've never measured two = side by side. Good theory, though. =0A
=0A
 
=0A
-al wick
=0A
=0A =
----- Original Message -----
=0A =
From: =0A wrjjrs@aol.com=
=0A =0A
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2011 =0A 12:18 PM=0A
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: The= good news =0A and the bad news......
=0A

=0A =
There is nothing wron= g =0A with that idea. The only concern is that the two sensors may have = =0A interference with each other. The idea is to put another toothed whe= el =0A rotated say a random 33.7= 15 degrees =0A relative to the first wheel. Now you place the second= sensor rotated the =0A same 33.7....etc degrees. So now when you switch= sensors the timing is the =0A same. Also the two sensors don't interfer= e with each other.
Bill =0A Jepson

= Connected by DROI= D on Verizon =0A Wireless


-----Ori= ginal =0Amessage-----
=0A
=0A
From: Chad =0A Robinson &= lt;crobinson@medialantern.com>
To: Rotary motors in =0A a= ircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Thu, Sep 15, = =0A 2011 17:45:46 GMT+00:00
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: The goo= d news =0A and the bad news......

=0A
=0A =
On 9/15/2011 1:21 PM, Tracy wrote: =0A
= The =0A = CAS references the crank, not the rotor. =C2  Is that. =0A It= ?
I'm still confused about something myself. Everybody =0A = keeps talking about adding another CAS as requiring it to be "in a =0A= different position", with an offset. My 3rd-gen CAS sits on a small = =0A bracket just behind the toothed wheel on the front shaft. Past tha= t =0A toothed wheel there's a healthy (from memory: 1.5"?) gap from th= ere to the =0A back of the alternator pulley.

What's to stop me= from making a =0A bracket and putting a second CAS in that gap, facin= g backward? It would be =0A in exactly the same position as the curren= t CAS, just facing backward. =0A Would they interfere with one another= ? If so, as an alternative, what =0A about using a second toothed whee= l either on top of the first and before =0A the alternator pulley, or = if side loads were a concern, on the very end of =0A the shaft past th= e =0Apulley?



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