X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from imr-da01.mx.aol.com ([205.188.105.143] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.1) with ESMTP id 5108979 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 22:21:17 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.188.105.143; envelope-from=CozyGirrrl@aol.com Received: from mtaomg-da04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-da04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.51.140]) by imr-da01.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id p7V2KZ1M023486 for ; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 22:20:35 -0400 Received: from core-dsb004b.r1000.mail.aol.com (core-dsb004.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.29.253.13]) by mtaomg-da04.r1000.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id 86D5CE00008D for ; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 22:20:35 -0400 (EDT) From: CozyGirrrl@aol.com Message-ID: <748c1.71978491.3b8ef473@aol.com> Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 22:20:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: CG Products Intake Manifold To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_748c1.71978491.3b8ef473_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 9.6 sub 5004 X-Originating-IP: [69.153.171.126] x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:432782240:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d338c4e5d9a730fb9 --part1_748c1.71978491.3b8ef473_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chad, thanks for the input. Our aim is to keep the high pressure circuit as short as absolutely possible so regulator will probably be on motor right after the injectors if we can manage it. They had such problems with Subes and vapor lock that I remember they had a parallel circuit around the regulator that had a tiny fuel jet in it to act as a bleed off. Chrissi & Randi _www.CozyGirrrl.com_ (http://www.cozygirrrl.com/) CG Products, Custom Aircraft Hardware Chairwomen, Sun-N-Fun Engine Workshop In a message dated 8/30/2011 9:03:33 P.M. Central Daylight Time, crobinson@medialantern.com writes: On 8/30/2011 9:36 PM, _CozyGirrrl@aol.com_ (mailto:CozyGirrrl@aol.com) wrote: ============= Thanks for the kudos Ed =) Yes the secondary injectors have retainers and floating caps on top into which Swagelock T's are installed so that hard stainless lines are daisy chained through. Once I figure out how to attach a picture I will take one and do so. This portion of the manifold is now complete to the silicone couplers and now needs joining to the rest of the fuel system via the primary fuel rail block. This is where we ask a few questions: 1. are pulse dampers still used on the input to the primary fuel rail? EVERY source I consulted in my build insisted on removing the PD. Vehemently. It's not required, it's failure-prone, and its failure mode is to leak fuel in just about the worst place possible. Mazdatrix and Pineapple both recommend removing it from cars, to say nothing of planes. 2. what is the best pressure regulator available? I can't say this is the BEST regulator, but after much research I chose the Aeromotive A1000-6 from Summitt. It has dual inlets which is nice if you want to run your rails in parallel, and if you don't you can use the second port for a pressure sensor or something. It has -6 fittings already, no adapters required, and a mounting bracket suitable for our firewalls. And it's referenced. The only drawback I've found other than cost is that it's fairly heavy. I'd bet somebody willing to chop off the bottom corners could save a quarter pound, but I'm not that brave. 3. we have seen diagrams where the fuel goes to a T then separately to the primaries and secondaries then back together at another T to enter the regulator. We are not leaning this way due to concerns about vapor lock; T'ing the lines reduces flow through each branch by 50%. True enough, although in fairness the AN-6 line is larger than stock and the stock ran the rails in serial through a bunch of small banjo bolt fittings and right-angle tube adapters - not exactly ideal flow. I believe the (Ed's?) idea about filing a bit of a groove in the ball seat in the regulator to let off pressure from the rail post-shutdown increases flow a bit more, too... More important, if the regulator is on the firewall you have a foot or two of hose to push bubbles into (my regulator is higher than my rails) when the pumps kick in. That last bit is a big safety advantage IMHO. Aside from heat shielding, making sure the fuel rail is not the highest point in the system (same as for the coolant) is the best answer to keeping bubbles out of it. In my case, I felt that the added weight (and another 2-3ft of hose to age and crack) of the extra hose from the filter to the second rail wasn't justified - although I can certainly see how some might disagree. Just my 2c, Chad --part1_748c1.71978491.3b8ef473_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Chad, thanks for the input. Our aim is to keep the high pressure circu= it as=20 short as absolutely possible so regulator will probably be on motor right a= fter=20 the injectors if we can manage it.
 
They had such problems with Subes and vapor lock that I remember they = had a=20 parallel circuit around the regulator that had a tiny fuel jet in it to act= as a=20 bleed off.
 
Chrissi &=20 Randi
www.CozyGirrrl.com
C= G=20 Products, Custom Aircraft Hardware
Chairwomen, Sun-N-Fun Engine Workshop=
 
In a message dated 8/30/2011 9:03:33 P.M. Central Daylight Time,=20 crobinson@medialantern.com writes:
= On=20 8/30/2011 9:36 PM, CozyGirrrl@aol.com wrote:=20
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Thanks for the kudos Ed =3D)
Yes the secondary injectors have retainers and floating caps on to= p=20 into which Swagelock T's are installed so that hard stainless lines are= =20 daisy chained through. Once I figure out how to attach a picture I will= take=20 one and do so. This portion of the manifold is now complete to the sili= cone=20 couplers and now needs joining to the rest of the fuel system via the= =20 primary fuel rail block.
 
This is where we ask a few questions:
1. are pulse dampers still used on the input to the primary fuel= =20 rail?
EVERY source I consulted in my build ins= isted=20 on removing the PD. Vehemently. It's not required, it's failure-prone, an= d its=20 failure mode is to leak fuel in just about the worst place possible. Mazd= atrix=20 and Pineapple both recommend removing it from cars, to say nothing of=20 planes.
2. what is the best pressure regulator=20 available?
I can't say this is the BEST regulato= r,=20 but after much research I chose the Aeromotive A1000-6 from Summitt. It h= as=20 dual inlets which is nice if you want to run your rails in parallel, and = if=20 you don't you can use the second port for a pressure sensor or something.= It=20 has -6 fittings already, no adapters required, and a mounting bracket sui= table=20 for our firewalls. And it's referenced. The only drawback I've found othe= r=20 than cost is that it's fairly heavy. I'd bet somebody willing to chop off= the=20 bottom corners could save a quarter pound, but I'm not that brave.
3. we have seen diagrams where the fuel goes to a T then separatel= y to=20 the primaries and secondaries then back together at another T to enter = the=20 regulator. We are not leaning this way due to concerns about vapor lock= ;=20 T'ing the lines reduces flow through each branch by=20 50%.
True enough, although in fairness the A= N-6=20 line is larger than stock and the stock ran the rails in serial through a= =20 bunch of small banjo bolt fittings and right-angle tube adapters - not ex= actly=20 ideal flow. I believe the (Ed's?) idea about filing a bit of a groove in = the=20 ball seat in the regulator to let off pressure from the rail post-shutdow= n=20 increases flow a bit more, too...

More important, if the regulator= is=20 on the firewall you have a foot or two of hose to push bubbles into (my= =20 regulator is higher than my rails) when the pumps kick in. That last bit = is a=20 big safety advantage IMHO. Aside from heat shielding, making sure the fue= l=20 rail is not the highest point in the system (same as for the coolant) is = the=20 best answer to keeping bubbles out of it.

In my case, I felt that = the=20 added weight (and another 2-3ft of hose to age and crack) of the extra ho= se=20 from the filter to the second rail wasn't justified - although I can cert= ainly=20 see how some might disagree.

Just my=20 2c,
Chad

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