X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from EXHUB003-2.exch003intermedia.net ([207.5.74.29] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.0) with ESMTPS id 5066627 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 12:44:07 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=207.5.74.29; envelope-from=jwhaley@datacast.com Received: from EXVMBX003-5.exch003intermedia.net ([207.5.74.45]) by EXHUB003-2.exch003intermedia.net ([207.5.74.29]) with mapi; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 09:43:31 -0700 From: Jeff Whaley To: 'Rotary motors in aircraft' Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 09:44:38 -0700 Subject: RE: Coolant Restrictor Plate Thread-Topic: Coolant Restrictor Plate Thread-Index: AcxNMlB2Q2G5AiOZTfqu1KVm1l/kwwAEF2Tg Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="_005_C03ABB0A7362B84BB53D544B3C305E0E019EE60BE25EEXVMBX0035e_"; type="multipart/alternative" MIME-Version: 1.0 --_005_C03ABB0A7362B84BB53D544B3C305E0E019EE60BE25EEXVMBX0035e_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_C03ABB0A7362B84BB53D544B3C305E0E019EE60BE25EEXVMBX0035e_" --_000_C03ABB0A7362B84BB53D544B3C305E0E019EE60BE25EEXVMBX0035e_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Ed, yes I have doubted the usefulness of a restrictor plate for a long t= ime which is why for the past 2 years with the rotary I had no thermostat n= or restrictor. Anyway, I gave it a try and was prepared for a very short circuit, surprisi= ngly there was no need to reduce power and get back on the ground in a hurr= y. At this point I can't guarantee it helps but I'm pretty sure it does no = harm in my system ... my method of measurement is to check the coolant temp= erature gauge after a WOT climb to circuit height and compare that to the r= esult last noted on a day with same temperature +/- 1 degree C ... the only= other variant would be the mixture setting. I would have to insert/extrac= t the restrictor on the same day with a stable OAT and leave the mixture se= tting alone to get a more accurate comparison. My next experiment is to switch from 50:50 glycol/water to pure de-ionized = water with a touch of water wetter or equivalent ... literature supports th= is giving significant improvement ... I'm curious to see for myself. Jeff From: "Ed Anderson" Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Coolant Restrictor Plate Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 10:50:09 -0400 To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" [cid:image001.gif@01CC4D21.96CA94A0] [cid:image002.gif@01CC4D21.96CA94A0] More details, Jeff? From my reading on cooling systems, the only time I have read of an improve= ment in cooling using a restrictor plate is in the case where the water pum= p is cavitaing. The restrictor plate improving cooling in that case becaus= e it produces more back pressure around the impeller and eliminates/reduces= the air bubble caused by cavitations. This permits the impeller to pump co= olant rather than trying to pump air. Otherwise, the old myth about restrictors/slow water cooling better is just= that - a myth. Now it may well be that a hose size larger than 0.75" dia is unnecessary fo= r some installations and going above size that does not really increase flo= w rate or cooling, so not saying what you found to be in error, but just di= dn't want folks to think that restriction =3D better cooling. The basic equation for heat removal ('Q') clearly shows that more mass flow= ('M') equals more heat removal. Q =3D M**t/Cp - M being the mass flow of= the coolant. Here is a link to one of the better non-technical discussion of all aspects= of cooling http://www.stewartcomponents.com/Tech_Tips.htm read Tech Tip #3 - Thermostats & Restrictors for a discussion about the res= triction myth FWIW Ed From: Jeff Whaley Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 10:26 AM To: 'Rotary motors in aircraft' Subject: Coolant Restrictor Plate I saw Lynn's coolant diagram with a restrictor plate in it ... you guys w= ith evaporator cores and 1" coolant hoses have a 1" restriction, this based= on Mazda's design of 1.5" inlet/outlet on the stock water pump and the sto= ck design includes a thermostat. With all of that as a background (never h= ad a thermostat), I decided to try a restrictor plate in my coolant system= , using a 0.75" hole in a plate at the water pump outlet into my 1.5" radia= tor hoses. I can say that it doesn't do any harm and may have actually pro= vided about 5% improvement ... more testing to follow. Jeff Whaley This message, and the documents attached hereto, is intended only for the a= ddressee and may contain privileged or confidential information. Any unauth= orized disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message= in error, please notify us immediately so that we may correct our internal= records. Please then delete the original message. Thank you. --_000_C03ABB0A7362B84BB53D544B3C305E0E019EE60BE25EEXVMBX0035e_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Ed, yes I have doub= ted the usefulness of a restrictor plate for a long time which is why for t= he past 2 years with the rotary I had no thermostat nor restrictor.

Anyway, I gave it a tr= y and was prepared for a very short circuit, surprisingly there was no need= to reduce power and get back on the ground in a hurry. At this point I can= ’t guarantee it helps but I’m pretty sure it does no harm in my system … my method of measurement is to c= heck the coolant temperature gauge after a WOT climb to circuit height and = compare that to the result last noted on a day with same temperature +/= - 1 degree C … the only other variant would be the mixture setting.  I would have to insert/extract the restricto= r on the same day with a stable OAT and leave the mixture setting alone to = get a more accurate comparison.

 

My next experiment is = to switch from 50:50 glycol/water to pure de-ionized water with a touch of = water wetter or equivalent … literature supports this giving signific= ant improvement … I’m curious to see for myself.

Jeff

 

From:

"Ed Anderson" <eanderson@ca= rolina.rr.com>

Subject:

Re: [FlyRotary] Coolant Restrictor Plate=

Date:

Thu, 28 Jul 2011 10:50:09 -0400

To:

"Rotary motors in aircraft" &l= t;flyrotary@lancaironline.net>

3D"Message

3D"Undecoded

More details, Jeff?

 

From my reading on cooling systems, the on= ly time I have read of an improvement in cooling using a restrictor plate i= s in the case where the water pump is cavitaing.  The restrictor plate improving cooling in that case because it produces more back pressur= e around the impeller and eliminates/reduces the air bubble caused by cavit= ations. This permits the impeller to pump coolant rather than trying t= o pump air.

 

Otherwise, the old myth about restrictors/= slow water cooling better is just that - a myth.

 

Now it may well be that a hose size larger= than 0.75" dia is unnecessary for some installations and going above = size that does not really increase flow rate or cooling, so not saying what you found to be in error, but just didn't want folks to think = that restriction =3D better cooling.

 

The basic equation for heat removal ('Q') = clearly shows that more mass flow ('M') equals more heat removal.  Q = =3D M*Dt/Cp - M being the mass flow  of the coolant.

 

Here is a link to one of the better non-te= chnical discussion of all aspects of cooling<= /span>

 

http://www.stewartcomponents.com/Tech_Tips.htm=

 

read Tech Tip #3 - Thermostats & Restri= ctors for a discussion about the= restriction myth

 

FWIW<= /p>

 

Ed

 

 

 

From: Jeff Wha= ley
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 10:26 AM
To: 'Rotary motors in aircraft'
Subject: Coolant Restrictor Plate

 

I saw Lynn’s coolant diagram with a restrictor= plate in it  …  you guys with evaporator cores and 1”= ; coolant hoses have a 1” restriction, this based on Mazda’s de= sign of 1.5” inlet/outlet on the stock water pump and the stock desig= n includes a thermostat.  With all of that as a background (never had a thermost= at), I decided to try a restrictor plate  in my coolant system, using = a 0.75” hole in a plate at the water pump outlet into my 1.5” r= adiator hoses.  I can say that it doesn’t do any harm and may have actually provided about 5% improvement … more testing t= o follow.

 

Jeff Whaley

 


This message, and the docum= ents attached hereto, is intended only for the addressee and may contain pr= ivileged or confidential information. Any unauthorized disclosure is strict= ly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately so that we may correct our = internal records. Please then delete the original message. Thank you.
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