X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from imr-db03.mx.aol.com ([205.188.91.97] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.0) with ESMTP id 5066315 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 07:57:06 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.188.91.97; envelope-from=Lehanover@aol.com Received: from mtaomg-mb01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-mb01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.41.72]) by imr-db03.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id p6SBuTOh015417 for ; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 07:56:29 -0400 Received: from core-moe001c.r1000.mail.aol.com (core-moe001.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.29.188.65]) by mtaomg-mb01.r1000.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id D9B86E000087 for ; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 07:56:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Lehanover@aol.com Message-ID: <42de.461865d.3b62a86c@aol.com> Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 07:56:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Injector mounting in top of block? To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_42de.461865d.3b62a86c_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 9.6 sub 5004 X-AOL-IP: 173.88.24.45 X-Originating-IP: [173.88.24.45] x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:417282208:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d29484e314e6c2a96 --part1_42de.461865d.3b62a86c_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As you said, fuel pooling is a problem even for injected engines. So you see water heated manifolds, just as in carbureted engines. Note the Lycoming with the distribution pot inside the oil pan. Heated oil keeps the mixture in a gas like state and the latent heat of evaporation helps cool the oil. On hot days there is a loss of power based on intake air temperature, but they suffer fewer carb icing events. Injectors do a better job of cooling the intake tubes close by, and absent some warming agent, some condensation will return to the fuel. At the least at lower power settings. So Mazda would appear to have moved the injector to the housing so that the fuel spray is facing the 300 degree plus rotor face. Plenty of heat to maintain a gas like state. So the rotor face is cooled some by the fuel. And thus a cooler oil in the rotor. There is no power loss because the chamber is closed and incoming air was not heated prior to entry so density was not lost. Lower rotor face temps allow for more intake to enter, and thus more power. The injector is firing into a low pressure unless turbo charging is involved. I am unable to detect a downside to this layout. An idle at 2000 RPM can be tolerated, to protect reduction gears. The racer idles between 2000 and 2200 RPM. So one big injector might do just fine, even if idle is less than ideal. Lynn E. Hanover In a message dated 7/27/2011 2:00:15 P.M. Paraguay Standard Time, echristley@nc.rr.com writes: The MegaSquirt can time the injection based off of the ignition timing. I'm having some issues with my manifold. The way I built it is causing fuel to puddle in the bottom (so, you live, learn and rebuild). I can probably move the two fuel injectors to the oil injection ports easier than I can build a new manifold. The other two injectors are at the stock position in the center plate. Then I would tune the fuel injector timing to minimize EGT. Am I fooling myself? And, if so, how? --part1_42de.461865d.3b62a86c_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
As you said, fuel pooling is a problem even for injected engines. So y= ou=20 see water heated manifolds, just as in carbureted  engines. Note the= =20 Lycoming with the distribution pot inside the oil pan. Heated oil keeps the= =20 mixture in a gas like state and the latent heat of evaporation helps cool t= he=20 oil. On hot days there is a loss of power based on intake air temperature, = but=20 they suffer fewer carb icing events.
 
Injectors do a better job of cooling the intake tubes close by, and ab= sent=20 some warming agent, some condensation will return to the fuel. 
At the least at lower power settings. So Mazda would appear to have mo= ved=20 the injector to the housing so that the fuel spray is facing the 300 degree= plus=20 rotor face. Plenty of heat to maintain a gas like state. So the rotor face = is=20 cooled some by the fuel. And thus a cooler oil in the rotor. There is no po= wer=20 loss because the chamber is closed and incoming air was not heated prior to= =20 entry so density was not lost.
 
Lower rotor face temps allow for more intake to enter, and thus more= =20 power.
 
The injector is firing into a low pressure unless turbo charging is=20 involved. I am unable to detect a downside to this layout.
 
An idle at 2000 RPM can be tolerated, to protect reduction gears.
The racer idles between 2000 and 2200 RPM. So one big injector might d= o=20 just fine, even if idle is less than ideal.
 
Lynn E. Hanover
 
 
 
In a message dated 7/27/2011 2:00:15 P.M. Paraguay Standard Time,=20 echristley@nc.rr.com writes:
= The=20 MegaSquirt can time the injection based off of the ignition timing. = =20
I'm having some issues with my manifold.  The way I built it is= =20 causing
fuel to puddle in the bottom (so, you live, learn and=20 rebuild).  I can
probably move the two fuel injectors to the oil= =20 injection ports easier
than I can build a new manifold.  The oth= er=20 two injectors are at the
stock position in the center plate.  Th= en I=20 would tune the fuel injector
timing to minimize EGT.

Am I fool= ing=20 myself?  And, if so,=20 how?
--part1_42de.461865d.3b62a86c_boundary--