X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-ew0-f52.google.com ([209.85.215.52] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.0) with ESMTPS id 5054051 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 16 Jul 2011 18:06:13 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.215.52; envelope-from=wdleonard@gmail.com Received: by ewy28 with SMTP id 28so1035997ewy.25 for ; Sat, 16 Jul 2011 15:05:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=rUfUhrAgZfg4V4AQpg5FUlzUOc3WXXNB5yHY8b20w+s=; b=Vpgivdec8CQP2eWKo5r9EGJE0mireEdwtlH5KI8w5dczgR7Vnk/NNgvZy08qxKgh9+ CWVZ0i+90ZjrqEQ1MkqwaNWXCf9mS84dvaD77hwxdIEZTP3q5bYEsFDit+4hJzodILEM XfZY63a+UbUchIZIrDauZ83J+LBroHjij4M/4= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.213.102.72 with SMTP id f8mr733466ebo.32.1310853935027; Sat, 16 Jul 2011 15:05:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.213.27.208 with HTTP; Sat, 16 Jul 2011 15:05:34 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2011 15:05:34 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Ok Here are the important flywheel measurements From: David Leonard To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00504502d12626583404a836f7ae --00504502d12626583404a836f7ae Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Good work Kelly. I would assume that your new flywheel would put the ring gear right where the stock flywheel puts it.. and that would be about .365 further from the gear drive. I'm not sure that a turbo starter is going to fix our problems with that distance. What we need is just a starter that extends further, but is otherwise unchanged. Looking at the pictures online, the first thing I notice is that the solenoid is mounted on the oppisite side of the gear opening from the one we currently use. Even if that will not interfere with anything else under your cowl, it makes me suspicous that it may be mounted the other way around - and consequently turn in the opposite direction. But I don't know that it won't work.. waiting to get measurements from you on that starter :-) If it dosent fit, another option besides welding on another ring gear might be to trim down the mounting wings on the current starter and make a recess in the adapter plate in order to extend the reach of the gear enough to engage. -- David Leonard Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net http://RotaryRoster.net One option if it does not work On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 2:21 PM, Kelly Troyer wrote: > Dave and All, > > Ok Dave the "ACT" "Streetlite" 13.8 lb flywheel was just > delivered and I am in process of taking > your measurements to see where we stand................This flywheel is a > thing of beauty (to a RotorHead) > and my RD1C drive plate will bolt to it with no problem (through drill and > spotface the rear of the flywheel > because it has a slight taper in that area).............I just have to > verify just where the RD1C drive splines > will be positioned (fore and aft) on the input shaft compared to the RX7 > flexplate.............The clutch plate > friction area is slightly raised (about 0.065) above the clutch mount area > and I would probably take it > down tto the clutch level (probably not necessary but would reduce weight > slightly.............I have a 93-95 > Turbo starter on the way (should take care of starter mesh > problem)..............If you are interested I can > guide you to another 93-95 starter (used $49.00 with/shipping) if it is > still for sale............. > One other thing at this time..............The lighter 9.8 lb > version may be usable but it is listed as 116 > ring gear teeth and I have not found out what its diameter is and what > starter would be used with it...... > I suspect it may be the diameter of the NA 13B flywheels and may > use the 86-91 NA manual trans > starter............You need to talk to the manufacturer..........They are > in Lancaster, Calif............The 9.8 lb > version is a little more expensive due to more extensive machine work to > reduce weight.............See the > link below............The link to THMotorsports has the best price I have > found on the 9.8 lb flywheel......The > photo on their page is not the Rotary 9.8 lb version........... > > http://www2.advancedclutch.com/products/xact_flywheels.aspx > > > http://thmotorsports.com/act/act_flywheel_prolite/600140/i-47718.aspx > > Kelly Troyer > *"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)* > "13B ROTARY"_ Engine > "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 > "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold > "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo > > *From:* Kelly Troyer > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Sent:* Friday, July 15, 2011 12:34 PM > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Ok Here are the important flywheel measurements > > Dave and All, > > Sounds encourageing...............Replacing the starter with turbo > model would seem to be > least expensive and safer than adding additional ring gear + > welding..............I also echo what > Bill and Bobby have said concerning the Al Wick fix and getting Tracy's > thoughts about cause > of problem and perhaps need for periodic inspection and/or rubber isolator > replacement........ > > Kelly Troyer > *"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)* > "13B ROTARY"_ Engine > "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 > "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold > "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo > > *From:* David Leonard > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Sent:* Thursday, July 14, 2011 11:41 PM > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Ok Here are the important flywheel measurements > > I finally got to the hangar and measured out my S5 turbo flywheel and the > remains of my S5 flexplate. The results are very encouraging, even as good > as the possibly could be to make the swap, but I only had ten min at the > hangar before I had to leave to pick up my daughter from daycare, so they > are one try and slightly sloppy... I make no guarantees. The height > measurements of the flex plate were particularly suspect because, well, mine > is all warped and broken. > > *Ring Gear Diameter* - Perfect fit. As we suspected, same size, same > tooth spacing. > > *Ring Gear Fore-Aft Placement* - As measured from the underside of the big > nut. (for all further reference, aft means aft in the CAR). The flex plate > puts the aft side of the ring gear 1.290 inches from the front of the big > nut. The flywheel puts it 0.913. So the flex plate puts the ring gear > (appx) 0.377 in. further aft. This is actually fortuitous because it just > so happens that the ring gear thickness is .365 ... So all we have to do > to fix the discrepancy is weld and extra ring gears onto to the flywheel > ring gear and there will be teeth that the starter can reach:(bottom of the > page.. the cost $80) > http://mazdatrix.com/flywheel.htm > It may also be possible to fix the discrepancy by changing the starter... > will look into that. > > *Damper Plate Placement* - On the flywheel, the mounting surface is proud > (or aft) of the ring gear. On the flex plate, the mounting surface is > recessed (or forward) from the ring gear. And it all pretty much works out. > That position on the flywheel will vary somewhat depending on which flywheel > you have and how much wear you have on the clutch slip surface. But on my (I > assume well-worn) flywheel the placement was 0.965 while the flex plate was > 0.950. Pretty damn close and given measurement error it might me meant to > be right on. Or, any difference could be made up by trimming down the > spline on the damper plate or removing or adding spacers between the two. > > So in my mind, a flywheel is the way to go. Stout, easy to get, pick your > weight, only mods seem to be drilling the mounting holes and welding on a > second gear ring. > > -- > David Leonard > > Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY > http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net > http://RotaryRoster.net > > > > > --00504502d12626583404a836f7ae Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Good work Kelly.

I would assume that your new flywheel would put the= ring gear right where the stock flywheel puts it.. and that would be about= .365 further from the gear drive.=A0 I'm not sure that a turbo starter= is going to fix our problems with that distance.=A0 What we need is just a= starter that extends further, but is otherwise unchanged.=A0 Looking at th= e pictures online, the first thing I notice is that the solenoid is mounted= on the oppisite side of the gear opening from the one we currently use.=A0= Even if that will not interfere with anything else under your cowl, it mak= es me suspicous that it may be mounted the other way around - and consequen= tly turn in the opposite direction.=A0 But I don't know that it won'= ;t work..=A0 waiting to get measurements from you on that starter :-)

If it dosent fit, another option besides welding on another ring gear m= ight be to trim down the mounting wings on the current starter and make a r= ecess in the adapter plate in order to extend the reach of the gear enough = to engage.

--
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net


One option if i= t does not work

On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 2:21 PM, Kelly Troye= r <keltro@att.net> wrote:
Dave and All,
=A0
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Ok Dave the "ACT" "St= reetlite" 13.8 lb flywheel was just delivered and I am in process of t= aking
your measurements to see where we stand................This flyw= heel is a thing of beauty (to a RotorHead)
and my RD1C drive plate will bolt to it with no problem (through= drill and spotface the rear of the flywheel
because it has a slight taper in that area).............I just h= ave to verify just where the RD1C drive splines
will be positioned (fore and aft) on the input shaft compared to= the RX7 flexplate.............The clutch plate
friction area is slightly raised (about 0.065) above the clutch = mount area and I would probably take it
down tto the clutch level (probably not necessary but would redu= ce weight slightly.............I have a 93-95
Turbo starter on the way (should take care of starter mesh probl= em)..............If you are interested I can
guide you to another 93-95 starter (used $49.00 with/shipping) i= f it is still for sale.............
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 One other thing at this time..............= The lighter 9.8 lb version may be usable but it is listed as 116
ring gear teeth and I have not found out what its diameter is an= d what starter would be used with it......
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 I suspect it may be the diameter of the NA= 13B flywheels and may use the 86-91=A0NA manual trans
starter............You need to talk to the manufacturer.........= .They are in Lancaster, Calif............The 9.8 lb
version is a little more expensive due to more extensive machine= work to reduce weight.............See the
link below............The link to THMotorsports has the best pri= ce I have found on the 9.8 lb flywheel......The
photo on their page is not the Rotary 9.8 lb version...........= =A0
=A0
=A0
=A0
=A0
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" = (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
&quo= t;MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

From: Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net>
To: Rotary motors in aircr= aft <fl= yrotary@lancaironline.net>
= Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 12:34 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: O= k Here are the important flywheel measurements

Dave and All,
=A0
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Sounds encourageing...............Repla= cing the starter with turbo model would seem to be
least expensive and safer than adding additional ring gear + wel= ding..............I also echo what
Bill and Bobby have said concerning the Al Wick fix and getting = Tracy's thoughts about cause
of problem and perhaps need for periodic inspection and/or rubbe= r=A0isolator replacement........=A0
=A0
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" = (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
&quo= t;MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

From: David Leonard <wdleonard@gmail.com> To: Rotary motors in aircr= aft <fl= yrotary@lancaironline.net>
= Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 11:41 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Ok He= re are the important flywheel measurements

I finally got to the hangar and measured out my S5 turbo flywheel and = the remains of my S5 flexplate.=A0 The results are very encouraging, even a= s good as the possibly could be to make the swap, but I only had ten min at= the hangar before I had to leave to pick up my daughter from daycare, so t= hey are one try and slightly sloppy... I make no guarantees.=A0 The height = measurements of the flex plate were particularly suspect because, well, min= e is all warped and broken.

Ring Gear Diameter - Perfect fit.=A0 As we suspected, same size,= same tooth spacing.

Ring Gear Fore-Aft Placement - As measur= ed from the underside of the big nut. (for all further reference, aft means= aft in the CAR).=A0 The flex plate puts the aft side of the ring gear 1.29= 0 inches from the front of the big nut. The flywheel puts it 0.913.=A0 So t= he flex plate puts the ring gear (appx) 0.377 in. further aft.=A0 This is actually fortuitous because it just so happens that the ring gear thicknes= s is .365 ...=A0=A0=A0 So all we have to do to fix the discrepancy is weld = and extra ring gears onto to the flywheel ring gear and there will be teeth= that the starter can reach:(bottom of the page.. the cost $80)
http://mazdatrix.com/flywheel.htm
It may also be possible to f= ix the discrepancy by changing the starter... will look into that.

<= b>Damper Plate Placement - On the flywheel, the mounting surface is pro= ud (or aft) of the ring gear.=A0 On the flex plate, the mounting surface is= recessed (or forward) from the ring gear. And it all pretty much works out= .=A0 That position on the flywheel will vary somewhat depending on which fl= ywheel you have and how much wear you have on the clutch slip surface. But = on my (I assume well-worn) flywheel the placement was 0.965 while the flex plate was 0.950.=A0 Pretty damn close and given measurement error it = might me meant to be right on.=A0 Or, any difference could be made up by tr= imming down the spline on the damper plate or removing or adding spacers be= tween the two.

So in my mind, a flywheel is the way to go.=A0 Stout, easy to get, pick= your weight, only mods seem to be drilling the mounting holes and welding = on a second gear ring.

--
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6= N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net



<= /div>




--00504502d12626583404a836f7ae--