X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-ew0-f52.google.com ([209.85.215.52] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.0) with ESMTPS id 5054006 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 16 Jul 2011 16:45:21 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.215.52; envelope-from=msteitle@gmail.com Received: by ewy28 with SMTP id 28so1024764ewy.25 for ; Sat, 16 Jul 2011 13:44:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=FyOYT8V4OfOgEB9pbHeqlydsf8Zn3LqEumA3N/7/Uns=; b=RrAjmwI5wZKgqVrOp3c9sxN5fTAh3+cIVXnT8gFwDSRbYqumIMvLPPt5eItEnbEMpu VEzl/Albgg+ciR952txErtdun2yXxgQNCh2N44IvUG4iUeWTtVd0MudgEJgBjGCvD7Ar tjF+G33BD9unu6EAGDtHG5YJ558K1ZZWGAj14= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.27.71 with SMTP id h7mr7444117fac.142.1310849083703; Sat, 16 Jul 2011 13:44:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.223.73.208 with HTTP; Sat, 16 Jul 2011 13:44:43 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2011 15:44:43 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Modified 20B/RX-8 flexplate From: Mark Steitle To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001517493c24fd036c04a835d59e --001517493c24fd036c04a835d59e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dustin, Good advice. My first choice is to bolt it together. Mark On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 3:30 PM, Dustin Lobner wrote: > Just my $.02 as a metallurgical engineer - do you know the alloys that th= e > flexplates are made out of? Do you know if they are carburized, and if s= o > where, or are they just induction hardened throughout? If you don't know= , > approach welding with extreme caution. You can create a lot of problems > that crop up later down the road when you start using it. Or when you've > used it for 200 hours. > > Dustin > > On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 3:27 PM, Mark Steitle wrote: > >> Kelly, >> >> I agree. It looks possible using tapered washers, available from >> McMaster. I may order a dozen of those and see if I can make them work. >> >> Mark >> >> >> On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 2:46 PM, Kelly Troyer wrote: >> >>> Mark, >>> >>> Using the two flexplates I would sure try to put the RD1X drive >>> plate bolts through both if at >>> all possible...........Would be much stronger and less likely to fail >>> from fatique IMHO.............. >>> >>> Kelly Troyer >>> *"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)* >>> "13B ROTARY"_ Engine >>> "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 >>> "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold >>> "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo >>> >>> *From:* Mark Steitle >>> *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft >>> *Sent:* Saturday, July 16, 2011 2:38 PM >>> >>> *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Modified 20B/RX-8 flexplate >>> >>> Kelly, >>> >>> ...Or easier yet, we could use tapered washers, available from McMaster= -Carr >>> (http://www.mcmaster.com/#tapered-washers/=3Dd7djrv). >>> >>> Mark >>> >>> On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 2:32 PM, Mark Steitle wrote= : >>> >>> Kelly, >>> >>> Following up on your previous question... With a little heat in the rig= ht >>> spots, I could flatten spots on the 20B flexplate for the four RD1X >>> adapter bolts, allowing the heads to sit flat on the 20B flexplate. >>> >>> Mark >>> >>> On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 2:23 PM, Kelly Troyer wrote: >>> >>> Mark, >>> >>> OK I have got it in my mind now..............I have an >>> update...........The "ACT" flywheel was just delivered and >>> as soon as I get my mother fed I will see how the RD1X drive plate will >>> fit the flywheel as I just happen to have >>> it here with me...............Keeping my fingers crossed that all my >>> "AS"umptions work out !!.....................<:) >>> >>> Kelly Troyer >>> *"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)* >>> "13B ROTARY"_ Engine >>> "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 >>> "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold >>> "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo >>> >>> *From:* Mark Steitle >>> *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft >>> *Sent:* Saturday, July 16, 2011 1:58 PM >>> >>> *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Modified 20B/RX-8 flexplate >>> >>> Kelly, >>> >>> No, unfortunately the backside of the 20B flexplate is not flat in that >>> area. You would need tapered washers to make that work. >>> >>> Mark >>> >>> On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 1:50 PM, Kelly Troyer wrote: >>> >>> Mark, >>> >>> In my mind the four RD!X drive plate bolts would go through both >>> flex-plates with a spacer between >>> them...............Is this not the scenario ??................ >>> >>> Kelly Troyer >>> *"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)* >>> "13B ROTARY"_ Engine >>> "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 >>> "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold >>> "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo >>> >>> *From:* Mark Steitle >>> *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft >>> *Sent:* Saturday, July 16, 2011 1:42 PM >>> *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Modified 20B/RX-8 flexplate >>> >>> Bill, >>> >>> Not sure which bolts you're referring, there are eight (8) around the >>> outside perimeter, and another six (6) that bolt the assy. to the >>> e-shaft. If you're referring to the four bolts that attach the 13B pla= te to >>> the 20B/RX-8 plate, then yes, definitely torqued. They would need spac= ers >>> so they would bolt solid and there wouldn't be any springiness. >>> >>> The trick will be with the four (4) bolts that attach the flexplate ass= yto the aluminum adapter. Those bolts will have to be inserted through the >>> 13b plate from the rear, then the two plates bolted together with the o= ther >>> four bolts, then the assy bolted to the e-shaft, and finally, the alum >>> adapter bolted to the flexplate assy. I am picturing a special wrench >>> that has been heated and bent to fit in through the lightening holes on= the >>> 20b flexplate. Its tight, but workable. >>> >>> Mark S. >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 1:08 PM, Bill Bradburry < >>> bbradburry@bellsouth.net> wrote: >>> >>> ** >>> Mark,**** >>> Don=92t you think the bolts need to be torqued? If you tighten them do= wn >>> against two plates, there will be some springiness no matter how stiff = the >>> plates are.**** >>> ** ** >>> Bill B**** >>> ** ** >>> *From:* **Rotary motors in aircraft** [mailto: >>> flyrotary@lancaironline.net] *On Behalf Of *Mark Steitle >>> *Sent:* Saturday, July 16, 2011 1:58 PM >>> >>> *To:* **Rotary motors in aircraft** >>> *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Modified 20B/RX-8 flexplate >>> **** >>> ** ** >>> Kelly, **** >>> ** ** >>> Yes, spacers will be required, approximately .250" thick, unless I >>> decide to connect the two plates via welding, then it won't matter if t= hey >>> touch or not. Originally, I thought they would nest together without t= he >>> need for spacers. I like the idea of bolting them so it can be disasse= mbled >>> if necessary.**** >>> ** ** >>> Mark**** >>> On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 12:32 PM, Kelly Troyer wrote:= * >>> *** >>> Mark,**** >>> **** >>> Do the bolt points of both flexplates nest together without any >>> space between both **** >>> flexplates or will spacers be needed when bolting together >>> ??............Could not tell**** >>> from the photo................. **** >>> **** >>> Kelly Troyer >>> *"DYKE DELTA JD2"** **(Eventually)***** >>> "13B ROTARY"_ Engine >>> "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 >>> "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold**** >>> "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo**** >>> ** ** >>> *From:* Mark Steitle >>> *To:* **Rotary motors in aircraft** >>> *Sent:* Saturday, July 16, 2011 11:46 AM >>> *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Modified 20B/RX-8 flexplate**** >>> ** ** >>> All, **** >>> ** ** >>> Attached is a picture of my proposed solution to the cracking >>> flexplates. I used my old 13B flexplate, removed the ring gear, and >>> nested it inside the 20B/RX-8 flexplate. It could be held together by >>> bolting or by welding around the outer perimeter, similar to how the ri= ng >>> gear is attached, although welding may cause warping. If bolted, there >>> would be ten bolts holding the two flexplates together. I favor the >>> bolting method as the four bolts holding the aluminum adapter will be a= bit >>> tricky to install and bolting would make it a bit easier to assemble. = * >>> *** >>> ** ** >>> Mark **** >>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>> From: *Mark* >>> Date: Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 11:47 AM >>> Subject: >>> To: msteitle@gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone**** >>> ** ** >>> ** ** >>> -- >>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>> Archive and UnSub: >>> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >>> >>> **** >>> ** ** >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> > --001517493c24fd036c04a835d59e Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dustin,=A0

Good advice. =A0My first choice is to bolt it= together. =A0

Mark

On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 3:30 PM, Dustin Lobner <dmlobner@gmail.com> wrote= :
Just my $.02 as a metallurgical engineer - = do you know the alloys that the flexplates are made out of?=A0 Do you know = if they are carburized, and if so where, or are they just induction hardene= d throughout?=A0 If you don't know, approach welding with extreme cauti= on.=A0 You can create a lot of problems that crop up later down the road wh= en you start using it.=A0 Or when you've used it for 200 hours.

Dustin

On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 3:27 P= M, Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.com> wrote:
Kelly,=A0

I agree. =A0It looks possible using tapered wa= shers, available from McMaster. =A0I may order a dozen of those and see if = I can make them work. =A0

= Mark


On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 2:46 PM, Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net> = wrote:
Mark,
=A0
=A0=A0=A0 Using the two flexplates I would sure try= to put the RD1X drive plate bolts through both if at
all possible...........Would be much stronger and less likely to= fail from fatique IMHO..............
=A0
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2&= quot; (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC= 2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

From: Mark Steit= le <mstei= tle@gmail.com>
To:= Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Saturday, July 1= 6, 2011 2:38 PM

Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Modified 20B/RX-8 flexplate

Kelly,=A0=20

...Or easier yet, we could use tapered washers, available from M= cMaster-Carr (http://www.mcmaster.com/#tape= red-washers/=3Dd7djrv). =A0=20

Mark

On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 2:32 PM, Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.com> wrote:
Kelly,=A0=20

Following up on your previous question... With a little heat in the ri= ght spots, I could flatten spots on the 20B flexplate for the = four RD1X adapter bolts, allowing the heads to sit flat on the 20B fl= explate. =A0

Mark

On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 2:23 PM, Kelly Troyer <keltro@a= tt.net> wrote:
Mark,
=A0
=A0 OK I=A0 have got it in my mind now..............I have an up= date...........The "ACT" flywheel was just delivered and <= /div>
as soon as I get my mother fed I will see how the RD1X drive pla= te will fit the flywheel as I just happen to have
it here with me...............Keeping my fingers cr= ossed that all my "AS"umptions work out !!..........= ...........<:)
=A0
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2&= quot; (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC= 2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

From: Mark Steit= le <msteitle@gmail.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironl= ine.net>
Sent: Saturday, July 1= 6, 2011 1:58 PM=20

Subject: [FlyRotary= ] Re: Modified 20B/RX-8 flexplate

Kelly,=A0=20

No, unfortunately the backside of the 20B flexplate is no= t flat in that area. =A0You would need tapered washers to make that work. = =A0=20

Mark

On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 1:50 PM, Kelly Troyer <keltro@a= tt.net> wrote:
Mark,
=A0
=A0=A0 In my mind the four RD!X drive plate bolts would go through both flex-plates wit= h a spacer between
them...............Is this not the scenario ??................
=A0
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS&= quot;_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

From: Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrota= ry@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Saturday, July 16, 201= 1 1:42 PM
Subject: [FlyRo= tary] Re: Modified 20B/RX-8 flexplate
<= br>
Bill,=A0=20

Not sure which bolts you're referring, there are eight (8) around = the outside perimeter, and another six (6) that bolt the assy. to the e-shaft. =A0If you're referring to the four bolts = that attach the 13B plate to the 20B/RX-8 plate, then yes, definitely torqu= ed. =A0They would need spacers so they would bolt solid and there wouldn= 9;t be any springiness. =A0

The trick will be with the four (4) bolts that attach the = flexplate assy to the aluminum adap= ter. =A0Those bolts will have to be inserted through the 13b plate from the= rear, then the two plates bolted together with the other four bolts, then = the assy bolted to the e-shaft, and finally, the = alum adapter bolted to the flexplate = assy. =A0I am picturing a special wrench that has been heated= and bent to fit in through the lightening holes on the 20b fle= xplate. =A0Its tight, but workable. =A0

Mark S.


On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 1:08 PM, Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net> wro= te:
Mark,
Don=92t you think the bolts need to be= torqued?=A0 If you tighten them down against two plates, there will be som= e springiness no matter how stiff the plates are.
=A0
Bill B
=A0
From: Rot= ary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyr= otary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf = Of Mark Steitle
Sent: Saturday, July 16, 201= 1 1:58 PM

To: Rotary motors in aircraft
S= ubject: [FlyRotary] Re: Modified 20B/RX-8 flexplate<= /span>
=A0
Kelly,=A0
=A0
Yes, spacers will be required, approximately .250" thick, unless I = decide to connect the two plates via welding, then it won't matter if t= hey touch or not. =A0Originally, I thought they would nest together without= the need for spacers. =A0I like the idea of bolting them so it can be disa= ssembled if necessary.
=A0
Mark
On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 12:32 PM, Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net> wrot= e:
Mark,
=A0
=A0=A0=A0Do the bolt points of both flexplates<= /span> nest together without any space between both
flexplates or will spacers be nee= ded when bolting together ??............Could not tell=
from the photo.................=A0
=A0
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2&q= uot; <= font color=3D"black" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"1">(Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Tu= rbo
=A0
From: Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.= com>
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2011 11:46 A= M
Subject: [FlyRotary] Modifie= d 20B/RX-8 flexplate
=A0
All,
=A0
Attached is a picture of my proposed solution to the cracking flexplates. =A0I used my old 13B flexplate= , removed the ring gear, and nested it inside the 20B/RX-8 flexplate. =A0It could be held together by bolting = or by welding around the outer perimeter, similar to how the ring gear is a= ttached, although welding may cause warping. =A0If bolted, there would be t= en bolts holding the two flexplates together. =A0= I favor the bolting method as the four bolts holding the aluminum adapter w= ill be a bit tricky to install and bolting would make it a bit easier to as= semble. =A0
=A0
Mark=A0
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Mark <msteitle@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 11:47 AM
Subject:
To: msteitle@gmail.com








Sent from my iPhone=
=A0
=A0
=A0













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