X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-iw0-f180.google.com ([209.85.214.180] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c2) with ESMTPS id 4902969 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 11 Mar 2011 07:16:13 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.214.180; envelope-from=wdleonard@gmail.com Received: by iwn6 with SMTP id 6so4537479iwn.25 for ; Fri, 11 Mar 2011 04:15:36 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=vIP9f7ZnLSzEq9qzqcnvV031sqRVou7rg8gBQ0PDRUU=; b=SkRR4TeimWK3Tqx18xCb3uLse3+F6RAfIo4i7hGnZvZ5El6lzCilkdiRfu3HLRsPWU khhjZkCtGsYRlg8vZIC4JjDfp8Gt5089vzlBRpV7PLDFEs6t425g46PsksTAYiyzDcaS HnPZO84uri9nzFb/qPHt7b6nqtWTz3IcNrokM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=qICMNtnARXsOVToDp7UDhUmUieQ95JlP1NCFWiHHrMqvzj2vHd2aniLNwyL4n91vV9 yRNzu8dx8vIqomKQxgA6njVZQtsaPSDjPERcnbKeD9HgrUO7w7tCbQra/h1uDcD6Gs70 iwK+x5J6TcylGC+vgMrKjLowXjWwIZNHRQRG8= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.3.142 with SMTP id 14mr7091210ibn.84.1299845736686; Fri, 11 Mar 2011 04:15:36 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.3.75 with HTTP; Fri, 11 Mar 2011 04:15:36 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 04:15:36 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Crankcase ventilation From: David Leonard To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=002215045bdb65e890049e33eb03 --002215045bdb65e890049e33eb03 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Kelly, My single EGT probe is just down stream of the turbo. I do my measurements in Celsius. Peak is about 915 or so. I usually climb out ROP and with the reduced RPMs, EGT are in the mid 700's to low 800's. MP on take off is anywhere between 30 and 45" depending on my mood and who I am trying to impress - though I usually try to keep it under 40". Even then it is for only the first 1000' or so, then I usually maintain about 28-30" through most of climb, and cruse at 22-30" depending on my mood. ROP cruse EGTs are 750 to 900 depending on power, RPM and how rich I make things. I usually lean it out just enough to keep EGT's around 870. (that is appx 100 deg ROP). If I am using a lot of boost or flying formation (when I cant keep an eye on the EGT) I will richen it up and keep the EGT's in the low 800's. I have done a lot of LOP flying. In cruse it is difficult to get the temps much below about 890 without the engine running a little rough (occasional misfire). Climbing LOP is actually better because the lower RPM's really help keep those EGT's down. Descending is the opposite, the EGTs really climb with the higher RPM. That is how I lost turbo #2, a long high-power descent at essentially peak EGT (about 920 or so) (Hey, I was late and didn't know any better - you guys can thank me for doing the testing :-) I have been on a kick lately to keep my EGT's down so I have been running mostly ROP. At the last annual I was getting some leaking around the stock exhaust manifold. Turns out that the gasket had worn out and that the manifold itself was getting some of the typical cracks that those cast iron manifolds are known to get. It looked to me as though at least part of the problem was oxidation. I replaced the manifold with one I had sitting around, but they have suddenly become harder to find. So my current plan was to eliminate the oxygen in the exhaust and keep the temps lower by running ROP. The problem is, that ROP flying really uses up a lot more fuel. Yesterday, flying home from Mammoth. I was hitting a headwind and would have maybe had to stop for fuel if I didn't lean it out (ASOS on departure was reporting wiinds 25 gusting 38mph - tough to get the plane loaded and untied in those winds). Anyway, 9 gal/hr LOP will get me about the same power and EGT as 11 gal/hr ROP (different MAP setting). Add more fuel and get lower EGT's but power starts dropping a little while the cost goes up fast. So, I have decided to go back to running LOP during cruse on my longer trips, especially if I fly at lower MAP settings. -- David Leonard Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net http://RotaryRoster.net On Thu, Mar 10, 2011 at 11:05 AM, Kelly Troyer wrote: > David, > Glad to hear from you..........Reminded me to ask you the same questions > about your > turboed 13B as I did John Slade.......... > Would like to know your typical EGT's and MP (boost) at takeoff , > climb and cruise > and if you lean "lean of peak" (or lean at all)........... > > > Kelly Troyer > *"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)* > > "13B ROTARY"_ Engine > "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 > "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold > > "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* David Leonard > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Sent:* Thu, March 10, 2011 12:26:56 PM > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Crankcase ventilation > > Interesting Idea, though you still probably want some other crankcase vent > functional in case the injection ports don't suck enough. BTW, VERY little > oil, if any, comes out the vent unless there is something wrong with one of > the side seals. probably best to just plug the oil injection and vent the > crank case. > > -- > David Leonard > > Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY > http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net > http://RotaryRoster.net > > On Thu, Mar 10, 2011 at 8:36 AM, Ernest Christley wrote: > >> I've not provided for clean way to vent the crankcase, yet. And I'm also >> not going to use the oil injection ports. As I understand it, the injection >> ports should always be at a negative pressure. Would it be a crazy idea to >> have the ports pull the dirty air out of the crankcase and not spread it >> across my airplane's belly? >> >> -- >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> Archive and UnSub: >> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >> > > > > --002215045bdb65e890049e33eb03 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Kelly,
=A0
My single EGT probe is just down stream of the turbo. I do my measurem= ents in Celsius.=A0 Peak is about 915 or so.=A0 I usually climb out ROP and= with the reduced RPMs, EGT are in the mid 700's to low 800's.=A0 M= P on take off is anywhere between 30 and 45" depending on my mood and = who I am trying to impress - though I usually try to keep it=A0under 40&quo= t;.=A0=A0Even then it is for only the first 1000' or so, then I=A0usual= ly=A0maintain about 28-30" through most of climb, and cruse at 22-30&q= uot; depending on my mood.=A0ROP cruse EGTs are 750 to 900 depending on pow= er, RPM and how rich I make things.=A0 I usually lean it out=A0just enough = to=A0keep EGT's around 870. (that is appx 100 deg ROP).=A0 If I am usin= g a lot of boost or flying formation (when I cant keep an eye on the EGT)= =A0I will richen it up and keep the EGT's in the low 800's.
=A0
I have done a lot of LOP flying.=A0 In cruse it is difficult to get th= e temps much below about 890 without the engine running a little rough (occ= asional misfire).=A0 Climbing LOP is actually better because the lower RPM&= #39;s really help keep those EGT's down.=A0 Descending is the opposite,= the EGTs really climb with the higher RPM.=A0 That is how I lost turbo #2,= a long high-power descent at essentially peak EGT (about 920 or so) (Hey, = I was late and didn't know any better - you guys can thank me for doing= the testing :-)
=A0
I have been on a kick lately to keep my EGT's down so I have been = running mostly ROP.=A0 At the last annual I was getting some leaking around= the stock exhaust manifold.=A0 Turns out that the gasket had worn out and = that the manifold itself was getting some of the typical cracks that those = cast iron manifolds=A0are known=A0to get.=A0 It looked to me as though at l= east part of the problem was oxidation.=A0 I replaced the manifold with one= I had sitting around, but they have suddenly become=A0harder to find.=A0 S= o my current plan was to eliminate the oxygen in the exhaust and keep the t= emps lower by running ROP.
=A0
The problem is, that ROP flying really uses up a lot more fuel.=A0 Yes= terday, flying home from Mammoth. I was hitting a headwind and would have m= aybe=A0had to stop for fuel if I didn't lean it out (ASOS on departure = was reporting wiinds=A025 gusting 38mph - tough to get the plane loaded and= untied in those winds).=A0 Anyway, 9 gal/hr LOP will get me about the same= power and EGT=A0as 11 gal/hr ROP (different MAP setting).=A0 Add more fuel= and get lower EGT's but power starts dropping a little while the cost = goes up fast.=A0 So, I have decided to go back to running LOP during cruse = on my longer trips, especially if I fly at lower MAP settings.

--
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net
On Thu, Mar 10, 2011 at 11:05 AM, Kelly Troyer <= span dir=3D"ltr"><keltro@att.net&g= t; wrote:
David,
=A0=A0 Glad to hear from you..........Reminded me to ask you the same = questions about your
turboed 13B as=A0I did John Slade..........
=A0=A0 Would like to kn= ow your typical EGT's and MP (boost)=A0at takeoff , climb=A0and cruise= =A0
and if you lean "lean of peak" (or lean at all)...........
=A0

Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)

"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"= MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold

"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo


<= br>
From: David Leonard <wdleonard@gmail.com>
To: Rotary motors= in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Thu, March 10, 2011 1= 2:26:56 PM
Subject: [Fly= Rotary] Re: Crankcase ventilation

Interesting Idea, though you still probably want some= other crankcase vent functional in case the injection ports don't suck= enough.=A0 BTW, VERY little oil, if any, comes out the vent unless there i= s something wrong with one of the side seals.=A0 probably best to just plug= the oil injection and vent the crank case.

--
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net=
http://RotaryRos= ter.net

On Thu, Mar 10, 2011 at 8:36 AM, Ernest Christle= y <echristley@att.net> wrote:
I've not provide= d for clean way to vent the crankcase, yet. =A0And I'm also not going t= o use the oil injection ports. =A0As I understand it, the injection ports s= hould always be at a negative pressure. =A0Would it be a crazy idea to have= the ports pull the dirty air out of the crankcase and not spread it across= my airplane's belly?

--
Homepage: =A0http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and Un= Sub: =A0 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/Lis= t.html






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