X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from nm24-vm0.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com ([98.139.44.182] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c2) with SMTP id 4901064 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 09 Mar 2011 16:07:55 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=98.139.44.182; envelope-from=keltro@att.net Received: from [98.139.44.103] by nm24.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Mar 2011 21:07:19 -0000 Received: from [98.139.44.71] by tm8.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Mar 2011 21:07:19 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1008.access.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Mar 2011 21:07:19 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 349714.8194.bm@omp1008.access.mail.sp2.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 9592 invoked by uid 60001); 9 Mar 2011 21:07:19 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=att.net; s=s1024; t=1299704839; bh=U/ceyMumI0FyUguKFLKM4EZ9c5rBAh9faY03+uyBp/I=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=UmgVC/PJsIadYxiy29FsmYd2Xh5xd/xKZxW1bsmK5PX++EB1Ig2txtohbgipVNK0zWrD5WYi2Rj4ie8WdB5Mvc9YyoxIZWIPLx+LX8qDdhk0aBUUaPpiF2cjAcdU2fDhkYKlHBMxickxV9V+qdQbTqM0CWtVUuW1+Mcnv6Yuxow= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=att.net; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=DQUiTMRDEeeRHK/NznakXg+VFYSSnzXIEsJJyW2LgNi4CA+aDAb4RCg/79Z165BFuyQ94yntHehzMGRY28hpIhEhX6SNlJg8YbeEUU1CD5GBKEmXB+0uEdomoCusTFg0KFkGKZ+oWathkzfm/zFGBw0wUI1yFLRZKQ9fON390QM=; Message-ID: <240262.6018.qm@web83912.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: TnetDgsVM1mJXbUquKxsCmtawF2jtsWc1vUF5audOnQC1O2 SVhcYM0sG4ZM8tJqAo702JXDUxPWO2f8yV9ti.YLssef066Ymd0rnUfed4NB mrRdK1tQkWjumDx_W22AwKcbCIpGLV2nJ0rGedFJq_LcDTMOC8TBaAYyni6s .JYAQWE6W3ZCmbNUzCIWYiJmYu01SQ2VBHYajOvNDx8_kgs0iIY7M9kBZGWi eQbSREPGnRaSdNtRS9gdiGN42qHLSF_4ahbL03_tZ8piIUYkfKBlq.emhl4f H4YtH Received: from [208.114.43.123] by web83912.mail.sp1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 09 Mar 2011 13:07:18 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/559 YahooMailWebService/0.8.109.292656 References: Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 13:07:18 -0800 (PST) From: Kelly Troyer Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: more staging and tuning To: Rotary motors in aircraft In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1638021073-1299704838=:6018" --0-1638021073-1299704838=:6018 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tracy,=0A=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Will the=C2=A0injector pulse increase follow th= e stage point no matter what MP =0Astage is set at ??.....=0A=0A=0AKelly Tr= oyer=0A"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)=0A"13B ROTARY"_ Engine=0A"RWS"_RD1C/EC= 2/EM2=0A"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=0A"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo=0A=0A= =0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Tracy =0ATo: Rotary motors in aircraft =0ASen= t: Wed, March 9, 2011 3:02:28 PM=0ASubject: [FlyRotary] Re: more staging an= d tuning=0A=0AInteresting results Steve.=C2=A0 I didn't think a simple acro= ss the board increase =0Awould be that effective.=C2=A0 In view of your ear= lier results I made a minor change =0Ato the EC2/3 software to bump up the = injector pulse width but only when the =0Astaging point is reached.=C2=A0= =C2=A0 This only applies to the setup for same sized =0Aprimary & secondary= injectors.=C2=A0 With the much larger secondaries on the 4 port =0ARenesis= the mixture goes rich instead of lean at the staging point (unless=C2=A0 M= ode =0A6 is adjusted to compensate).=0A=0AI have not flight tested the chan= ge yet.=0A=0ATracy=C2=A0 =0A=0A=0AOn Wed, Mar 9, 2011 at 1:11 PM, Ed Anders= on wrote:=0A=0AAh, Ok Steve, thanks for the exp= lanation.=C2=A0 That's when your adjustment was made =0A(with pulse lengthe= ning HW) in order to show the results on the right hand side =0Aof the plot= - got it.=C2=A0=0A>=C2=A0=0A>Ok, makes sense that if adjusting the map tak= es care of the staging "bog" then =0A>it=E2=80=99s the equivalent of adding= 1.2 msec (fuel equivalent)=C2=A0to the values in=C2=A0the =0A>Fuel MAP.=0A= >=C2=A0=0A>Ed.=0A>=C2=A0=0A>=C2=A0=0A>=0A>=0A>From: Steven W. Boese =0A>Sen= t: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 12:59 PM=0A>To: Rotary motors in aircraft =0A>= Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: more staging and tuning=0A>=0A>=0A>Ed,=0A>=C2=A0= =0A>Those perturbations you see are the result of engaging the pulse width = addition =0A>hardware and the readjustment of modes 3 and 2 along with a mo= mentary manual =0A>mixture change that was unnecessary.=C2=A0 I should have= labeled three regions on the =0A>plot with the area you are referring to a= s a readjustment period.=0A>=C2=A0=0A>That plot was a quick attempt at show= ing the effect of the pulse width addition =0A>in a single session.=C2=A0 T= he adjustments were probably not the best since it was =0A>cold, windy, and= our latest snowstorm was just getting started.=C2=A0 Since this data =0A>w= as collected in my back yard, I try to keep the sessions short for the =0A>= neighbor=E2=80=99s benefit.=C2=A0 So far, though, =C2=A0the horses just acr= oss the alley are the =0A>only neighbors that have shown any interest.=0A>= =C2=A0=0A>I suspect that adding the injector lag time is a large part of wh= at adjusting =0A>the MAP table is doing when using either of the two tuning= methods described =0A>previously.=C2=A0 The second method may be easier ju= st because the step in the table =0A>at staging has already been eliminated= .=C2=A0 =0A>=0A>=C2=A0=0A>Steve=0A>=C2=A0=0A>=C2=A0=0A>From:Rotary motors i= n aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of =0A>Ed Anderso= n=0A>Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 10:12 AM =0A>=0A>To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=0A>Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: more staging and tuning=0A>=C2=A0=0A>F= ascinating, Steve=0A>=C2=A0=0A>I presume the perturbation we see in the rig= ht side of left plot (Tuning =0A>Plot1.jpg)=C2=A0 as you decrease engine rp= m (and I see a tweak of the manual mixture =0A>control -- perhaps to keep t= he engine from dying?) - the O2 sensor bobbing =0A>between rich and lean.= =C2=A0 I do not see that pertubation on the right plot -=C2=A0=C2=A0is =0A>= this (bobbing between rich and lean) =C2=A0due to the controller causing th= e =0A>injectors to actually cut off (not open) due to the 1.2 msec delay no= t being =0A>compensated for??? =0A>=0A>=C2=A0=0A>If one had the controller = map math,=C2=A0it might be possible to add the "1.2msec" of =0A>fuel missin= g by increasing the MAP value in each bin???=C2=A0=C2=A0However, =C2=A0I gu= ess (even =0A>if possible) it would be easier to compensate by using your m= ethod 1 or 2. =0A>=0A>=C2=A0=0A>Good work, really appreciate you sharing it= with us=0A>=C2=A0=0A>Ed=0A>=C2=A0=0A --0-1638021073-1299704838=:6018 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=0A
Tracy,
=0A
    Will the&nbs= p;injector pulse increase follow the stage point no matter what MP stage is= set at ??.....
=0A
 
=0A
 
=0A

Kelly Tr= oyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Even= tually)

=0A

"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold

=0A

"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo=0A


=0A

=0A
=0A
=0AFrom: Tracy <= tracy@rotaryaviation.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
<= B>Sent: Wed, March 9, 2011 3:0= 2:28 PM
Subject: [FlyRot= ary] Re: more staging and tuning

Interesting results Steve.&n= bsp; I didn't think a simple across the board increase would be that effect= ive.  In view of your earlier results I made a minor change to the EC2= /3 software to bump up the injector pulse width but only when the staging p= oint is reached.   This only applies to the setup for same sized = primary & secondary injectors.  With the much larger secondaries o= n the 4 port Renesis the mixture goes rich instead of lean at the staging p= oint (unless  Mode 6 is adjusted to compensate).

I have not fli= ght tested the change yet.

Tracy 

=0A
On = Wed, Mar 9, 2011 at 1:11 PM, Ed Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com> wr= ote:
=0A
=0A
=0A
Ah, Ok Steve, thanks for the explanation.&nb= sp; That's when your adjustment was made (with pulse lengthening HW) in ord= er to show the results on the right hand side of the plot - got it. 
=0A
 
=0A
Ok, makes sense that if adjusting the map takes care of the stagin= g "bog" then it=E2=80=99s the equivalent of adding 1.2 msec (fuel equivalen= t) to the values in the Fuel MAP.
=0A
 
=0A
Ed.
=0A<= DIV> 
=0A
 
=0A
=0A

=0A
=0A=0A
Sen= t: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 12:59 PM
=0A
=0A
=0A
S= ubject: [FlyRotary] Re: more staging and tuning
=0A
=0A
=0A

Ed,

=0A

 

=0A

Those perturbations you see are the res= ult of engaging the pulse width addition hardware and the readjustment of m= odes 3 and 2 along with a momentary manual mixture change that was unnecess= ary.  I should have labeled three regions on the plot with the area yo= u are referring to as a readjustment period.

=0A

 

=0A

That plot was= a quick attempt at showing the effect of the pulse width addition in a sin= gle session.  The adjustments were probably not the best since it was = cold, windy, and our latest snowstorm was just getting started.  Since= this data was collected in my back yard, I try to keep the sessions short = for the neighbor=E2=80=99s benefit.  So far, though,  the horses = just across the alley are the only neighbors that have shown any interest.<= /SPAN>

=0A

 

=0A

I suspect that adding the injector lag time is a large par= t of what adjusting the MAP table is doing when using either of the two tun= ing methods described previously.  The second method may be easier jus= t because the step in the table at staging has already been eliminated.&nbs= p;

=0A

 

=0A

Steve

=0A

 

=0A

 

=0A
=0A
=0A

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On B= ehalf Of Ed Anderson
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 10:12 AM= =0A


To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Su= bject: [FlyRotary] Re: more staging and tuning
=0A=0A

 

=0A
=0A

Fascinating, Steve

=0A
=0A

 

=0A
=0A

I presume the perturbation we see in th= e right side of left plot (Tuning Plot1.jpg)  as you decrease engine r= pm (and I see a tweak of the manual mixture control -- perhaps to keep the = engine from dying?) - the O2 sensor bobbing between rich and lean.  I = do not see that pertubation on the right plot -  is this (bobbing= between rich and lean)  due to the controller causing the injectors t= o actually cut off (not open) due to the 1.2 msec delay not being compensat= ed for???

=0A
= =0A

 

=0A
=0A

If one = had the controller map math, it might be possible to add the "1.2msec"= of fuel missing by increasing the MAP value in each bin???  Howe= ver,  I guess (even if possible) it would be easier to compensate by u= sing your method 1 or 2.

=
=0A
=0A

 = ;

=0A
=0A

Good work, really appreciate you sharing it with us

=0A
=0A

 

=0A
=0A

Ed

=0A

 


=0A
--0-1638021073-1299704838=:6018--