X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-fx0-f52.google.com ([209.85.161.52] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c2o) with ESMTPS id 4894242 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 07 Mar 2011 19:48:22 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.161.52; envelope-from=msteitle@gmail.com Received: by fxm17 with SMTP id 17so4799165fxm.25 for ; Mon, 07 Mar 2011 16:47:44 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=4PleoZFhlMq2y17FI6dUnWuRxj02o0ypv3GvBvH4Vq8=; b=oXduogE1rFxZyIgZK68NqPAaQx6AVh9zmdEeyrmsDRJ3sH7enDW+zKZavipbWDClB9 nCVf8Ph9RP6+yPsGSU92OqFfjK4lWp21y4EfP1xAfNj5BzH1/vUWiLY7K9JwuGzTNwB0 63ZHm+aQpvhrfNW/Gt8rE7rYznSNzCuc8oJ3g= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=rxzN4Va+FHjpgmsf0K9iAWgEWzXfmWFwNEVEXhPEuMSR8PiOjI0xhZiV3+07mdm6jC U3LbMwNlT/eUx7U86IJG6Ys1PuIBKkCoblNUrU79xhBNqRR5bYQ05Fk4lIg8HTBAr4ET zFJ5sXqhAf8jp9YFWs9Jy9zXMKpiL+TD9couQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.95.199 with SMTP id e7mr2958924fan.82.1299545264384; Mon, 07 Mar 2011 16:47:44 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.223.73.203 with HTTP; Mon, 7 Mar 2011 16:47:44 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 18:47:44 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Miss above staging point. From: Mark Steitle To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00248c176baedaf2be049dedf58e --00248c176baedaf2be049dedf58e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kelly, Wow, you sure know how to hurt a guy! Mark On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 5:19 PM, Kelly Troyer wrote: > Mark, > Sorry you are so far south of the OK/TX border ..........Plenty of > non-ethanol fuel up here!!........<:( > > > > Kelly Troyer > *"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)* > > "13B ROTARY"_ Engine > "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 > "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold > > "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Mark Steitle > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Sent:* Mon, March 7, 2011 5:12:46 AM > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Miss above staging point. > > Bill, > > One quart =3D 32 oz. So I added a little over 2 qts (1 qt./tank) along w= ith > 75 gal. of fuel (37 gal/tank). As I figure, that is approx. 1 oz/gal. T= hat > is the ratio of oil/fuel I've always used. > > As for switching from mogas, I switched because a year ago the %$#@%&^ > government bureaucrats mandated that all gas stations in Texas switch to = 10% > ethanol for all grades of fuel. As I've heard from others on the Lancair > list, ethanol will attack and soften the adhesive used to bond the wings > together. When that happens the tanks will begin to leak, or worse. I'v= e > searched and searched for non-ethanol mogas in my area and the closest th= at > I could find is at a marina about 75 miles away from where I live, or 125 > miles from where I keep the airplane... not a workable solution. So, for > now, I'm stuck with 100LL. The engine runs fine on 100LL and it doesn't > mess with the integrity of the wings. It just costs me an extra $100 to > fill 'er up. I try not to think about it. > > Mark > > On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 9:30 PM, Bill Bradburry = wrote: > >> Mark, >> >> >> >> Really sounds like a great day. I hope you are still remembering it whe= n >> that credit card bill comes in! :>) There is a downside to getting the >> plane flying! Gas Prices! >> >> >> >> So why did you go away from Mogas and do the more expensive 100LL? Also >> why so much 2 stroke oil? You seem to be mixing at about 2 oz per gal. = Are >> you getting oil into your crankcase at that level? I am using =BE to 1 = oz and >> I get drops flicked onto the bottom of the plane from the exhaust. >> >> >> >> If I can get this tuning issue resolved, I plan to try and fly tomorrow. >> >> >> >> Bill B >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] *= On >> Behalf Of *Mark Steitle >> *Sent:* Sunday, March 06, 2011 9:12 PM >> *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft >> *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Miss above staging point. >> >> >> >> Bill, >> >> >> >> Yes, today was a perfect day to fly in Central Texas, mild temps, >> practically zero wind, and severe clear. Since I needed fuel, I decided= to >> fly down to my favorite fuel stop, Halletsville, TX (3T5) to gas up. It= is >> about 45 miles SE from Lockhart. I had about 12 gallons in each tank, s= o it >> was time to re-fuel. Well, I flew over and landed at 3T5, taxi up to th= e >> pump, and guess what.... the pumps were out of order. @$#%&%$ OK, now = I >> have about 19 gallons and need to find some fuel. So, I head over to >> Fayette Regional (34R) (our favorite BBQ spot) about 30 miles due north.= It >> wasn't the closest airport, but I know that they have fuel there, and th= eir >> pumps work! I flew up to 34R and landed with about 15 gallons left in t= he >> two tanks, not too risky, but the least amount of fuel I've ever flown w= ith >> to date. Well, the pumps at 34R were working and I pumped in 75 gallons= and >> added over 2 qts of 2-stroke oil. After almost maxing out my credit car= d, I >> taxied out, did a run-up, rolled out onto the active, and flew back to m= y >> home base, Lockhart. So, all I accomplished was filling the tanks and >> burning 15 gallons of 100LL, but had a great time doing it. It was kind= of >> like going for a $100 hamburger, except without the burger. >> >> >> >> The p-port 20b ran flawlessly. Oil and coolant temps were below 160*F t= he >> whole way. Engine didn't miss a beat while cruising along at 197mph (pe= r >> EM-2) @ 5100rpm (M/T prop dialed down to full coarse). I must say, the = new >> LS2 coils sure appear to have cured the occasional intermittent mis-fire >> problem. The engine just hummed along as sweet as pie. As they say, li= fe >> doesn't get any better than this. You guys/gals that haven't yet flown, >> don't dismay, your time is coming. >> >> >> >> Mark S. >> >> Lancair ES, N/A P-Port 20B >> >> Lockhart, Tx >> >> On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 6:21 PM, Bill Bradburry >> wrote: >> >> Did you fly! We need a report! >> >> >> >> Bill B >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] *= On >> Behalf Of *Mark Steitle >> *Sent:* Sunday, March 06, 2011 9:03 AM >> >> >> *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft >> *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Miss above staging point. >> >> >> >> Bill, >> >> Maybe Lynn can comment on this, but personally I don't sandblast plugs. >> My suggestion is to replace the plugs with new ones. Most of my mis-fi= re >> problems have been cured by either tuning or new spark plugs. >> >> >> >> Mark >> >> >> >> P.S. Its a beautiful Spring day in Austin and I'm heading to the airpor= t >> (will fly, assuming everything checks out). >> >> >> >> On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 7:14 AM, Bill Bradburry >> wrote: >> >> Mark, >> >> The car the engine came from had about 1400 miles on it. I have run abo= ut >> 40 gallons of gas thru it. I will have to check the coils for darkening= . >> Also same for plug wires. I am using the stock Renesis plugs. I might = try >> cleaning them. >> >> >> >> On a previous occasion, I flooded the engine and it would not start till= I >> sand blasted the plugs. After that it started normally. >> >> >> >> This problem just happened on the second takeoff. The engine was runnin= g >> smoothly at all rpms till I made the second takeoff. It started to miss= and >> pop and the rpm would only go to about 6300. after I got in the air, I >> dialed the prop back and the rpm was around 6000 and the engine smoothed= out >> again and was ok the rest of the flight. Now it is missing on the groun= d >> above the staging point. I have mine set at 16 inches. >> >> I watched the mixture and it seems fine on both sides of the staging poi= nt >> and also on up in the higher rpms. The only difference is that the engi= ne >> starts to miss.erratically. I didn=92t notice the EGT as Tracy suggeste= d. I >> need to switch to the page that shows the temp of both of them and check >> that today. >> >> >> >> Bill >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] *= On >> Behalf Of *Mark Steitle >> *Sent:* Saturday, March 05, 2011 9:50 PM >> *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft >> *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Miss above staging point. >> >> >> >> Bill, >> >> >> >> How do the coils look (underneath)? Are there dark areas in the potting >> material where they have gotten hot? There is a history of coil failure= s in >> the RX-8's after about 30k miles. >> >> >> >> How many hours on the plugs/wires? How do they look? >> >> >> >> Mark >> >> On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 8:36 PM, Bill Bradburry >> wrote: >> >> Mark, >> >> >> >> I have the stock Renesis coils. >> >> >> >> Bill B >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] *= On >> Behalf Of *Mark Steitle >> *Sent:* Saturday, March 05, 2011 6:19 PM >> *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft >> *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Miss above staging point. >> >> >> >> Bill, >> >> >> >> Which coils are you running? I chased an intermittent miss which occurr= ed >> in the 6000 -7000 range. I upgraded to the LS2 "Yukon" coils and the mi= ss >> was gone. >> >> >> >> Mark S. >> >> On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 4:56 PM, Bill Bradburry >> wrote: >> >> I have developed a miss above the staging point. The fuel pressure seem= s >> ok, the mixture also seems ok. I am at a loss. >> >> >> >> To try and troubleshoot, I am considering getting above the staging poin= t >> and disabling the primaries and secondaries to see if I can identify whi= ch >> is the cause. Since it runs ok below the stage, I assume it is not the >> primaries. >> >> >> >> I recently changed my fuel filters and installed a large canister filter= . >> There seems a possibility that I introduced some contamination that clo= gged >> an injector. Other wise it seems it must be spark related. This just >> happened one flight ago. The engine was running fine, till that last >> takeoff. It was missing and would only get about 6300 rpm. After take = off, >> I turned the prop back and slowed the engine down to below that number a= nd >> it smoothed out and ran fine the res of the flight. Today while taxiing >> around, I noticed that the miss was back. >> >> >> >> Opinions welcomed. >> >> >> >> Bill B >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > --00248c176baedaf2be049dedf58e Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kelly,=A0

Wow, you sure know how to hurt a guy!

Mark

On Mon, Mar 7, 2011= at 5:19 PM, Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net> wrote:
Mark,
=A0=A0 Sorry you are so far south of the OK/TX border ..........Plenty= of non-ethanol fuel up here!!........<:(
=A0
=A0

Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)

"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"= MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold

"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo



From: Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.com&g= t;
To: Rotary motors in a= ircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Mon, March 7, 2011 5:1= 2:46 AM
Subject: [FlyRota= ry] Re: Miss above staging point.

Bill,=20

One quart =3D 32 oz. =A0So I added a little over 2 qts (1 qt./tank) al= ong with 75 gal. of fuel (37 gal/tank). =A0As I figure, that is approx. 1 o= z/gal. =A0That is the ratio of oil/fuel I've always used.=A0

As for switching from mogas, I switched because a year ago the %$#@%&a= mp;^ government=A0bureaucrats=A0mandated that all gas stations in Texas swi= tch to 10% ethanol for all grades of fuel. =A0As I've heard from others= on the Lancair list, ethanol will attack and soften the adhesive used to b= ond the wings together. =A0When that happens the tanks will begin to leak, = or worse. =A0I've searched and searched for non-ethanol mogas in my are= a and the closest that I could find is at a marina about 75 miles away from= where I live, or 125 miles from where I keep the airplane... not a workabl= e solution. =A0So, for now, I'm stuck with 100LL. =A0The engine runs fi= ne on 100LL and it doesn't mess with the integrity of the wings. =A0It = just costs me an extra $100 to fill 'er up. =A0I try not to think about= it. =A0

Mark

On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 9:30 PM, Bill Bradburry <= span dir=3D"ltr"><bbradburry@bellsouth.net> wrote:

Mark,<= /p>

=A0

Really sounds like a= great day.=A0 I hope you are still remembering it when that credit card bi= ll comes in!=A0 :>)=A0 There is a downside to getting the plane flying!= =A0 Gas Prices!

=A0

So why did you go aw= ay from Mogas and do the more expensive 100LL?=A0 Also why so much 2 stroke= oil?=A0 You seem to be mixing at about 2 oz per gal.=A0 Are you getting oi= l into your crankcase at that level?=A0 I am using =BE to 1 oz and I get dr= ops flicked onto the bottom of the plane from the exhaust.

=A0

If I can get this tu= ning issue resolved, I plan to try and fly tomorrow.=A0

=A0

Bill B=

=A0

From:<= font size=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"> Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.ne= t] On Behalf Of Mark Ste= itle
Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011= 9:12 PM
To: Rotary motor= s in aircraft
Subject: [F= lyRotary] Re: Miss above staging point.

=A0

Bill,=A0

=A0

Yes, today was a perfect day to fly in Central Texas, = mild temps, practically zero wind, and severe clear. =A0Since I needed fuel= , I decided to fly down to my favorite fuel stop, Halletsville, TX (3T5) to= gas up. =A0It is about 45 miles SE from Lockhart. =A0I had about 12 gallon= s in each tank, so it was time to re-fuel. =A0Well, I flew over and landed = at 3T5, taxi up to the pump, and guess what.... the pumps were out of order= . =A0@$#%&%$ =A0OK, now I have about 19 gallons and need to find some f= uel. =A0So, I head over to Fayette Regional (34R) (our favorite BBQ spot) a= bout 30 miles due north. =A0It wasn't the closest airport, but I know t= hat they have fuel there, and their pumps work! =A0I flew up to 34R and lan= ded with about 15 gallons left in the two tanks, not too risky, but the lea= st amount of fuel I've ever flown with to date. =A0Well, the pumps at 34R were working and I pumped in 75 gallons and adde= d over 2 qts of 2-stroke oil. =A0After almost maxing out my credit card, I = taxied out, did a run-up, rolled out onto the active, and flew back to my h= ome base, Lockhart. =A0So, all I accomplished was filling the tanks and bur= ning 15 gallons of 100LL, but had a great time doing it. =A0It was kind of = like going for a $100 hamburger, except without the burger. =A0

=A0

The p-port 20b ran flawlessly. =A0Oil and coolant temp= s were below 160*F the whole way. =A0Engine didn't miss a beat while cr= uising along at 197mph (per EM-2) @ 5100rpm (M/T prop dialed down to full c= oarse). =A0I must say, the new LS2 coils sure appear to have cured the occa= sional intermittent mis-fire problem. =A0The engine just hummed along as sw= eet as pie. =A0As they say, life doesn't get any better than this. =A0Y= ou guys/gals that haven't yet flown, don't dismay, your time is com= ing. =A0

=A0

Mark S.

Lancair ES, N/A P-Port 20B

Lockhart,= Tx =A0 =A0

On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 6:21 PM, Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net> wrote:

Did you fly!=A0 We n= eed a report!

=A0

Bill B=

=A0

From:<= font size=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"> Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.ne= t] On Behalf Of Mark Ste= itle
Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011= 9:03 AM


To:<= /span> Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Miss above staging point.

=A0

Bill,=A0

Maybe Lynn can comment on this, but personally I don&#= 39;t sandblast plugs. =A0My suggestion is to replace the plugs with new one= s. =A0Most of my mis-fire problems have been cured by either tuning or new = spark plugs.=A0

=A0

Mark

=A0

P.S. =A0Its a beautiful Spring day in Austin and I'= ;m heading to the airport (will fly, assuming everything checks out).=A0

=A0

On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 7:14 AM, Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net> wrote:

Mark,<= /p>

The car the engine c= ame from had about 1400 miles on it.=A0 I have run about 40 gallons of gas = thru it.=A0 I will have to check the coils for darkening.=A0 Also same for = plug wires.=A0 I am using the stock Renesis plugs.=A0 I might try cleaning = them.

=A0

On a previous occasi= on, I flooded the engine and it would not start till I sand blasted the plu= gs.=A0 After that it started normally.

=A0

This problem just ha= ppened on the second takeoff.=A0 The engine was running smoothly at all rpm= s till I made the second takeoff.=A0 It started to miss and pop and the rpm= would only go to about 6300.=A0 after I got in the air, I dialed the prop = back and the rpm was around 6000 and the engine smoothed out again and was = ok the rest of the flight.=A0 Now it is missing on the ground above the sta= ging point.=A0 I have mine set at 16 inches.

I watched the mixtur= e and it seems fine on both sides of the staging point and also on up in th= e higher rpms.=A0 The only difference is that the engine starts to miss.err= atically.=A0 I didn=92t notice the EGT as Tracy suggested.=A0 I need to swi= tch to the page that shows the temp of both of them and check that today.

=A0

Bill

=A0

From:<= font size=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"> Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.ne= t] On Behalf Of Mark Ste= itle
Sent: Saturday, March 05, 20= 11 9:50 PM
To: Rotary mot= ors in aircraft
Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re: Miss above staging point.

=A0

Bill,=A0

=A0

How do the coils look (underneath)? =A0Are there dark = areas in the potting material where they have gotten hot? =A0There is a his= tory of coil failures in the RX-8's after about 30k miles. =A0 =A0

=A0

How many hours on the plugs/wires? =A0How do they look= ?

=A0

Mark =A0<= /p>

On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 8:36 PM, Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net> wrote:

Mark,<= /p>

=A0

I have the stock Ren= esis coils.

=A0

Bill B=

=A0

From:<= font size=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"> Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.ne= t] On Behalf Of Mark Ste= itle
Sent: Saturday, March 05, 20= 11 6:19 PM
To: Rotary mot= ors in aircraft
Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re: Miss above staging point.

=A0

Bill,=A0

=A0

Which coils are you running? =A0I chased an intermitte= nt miss which occurred in the 6000 -7000 range. =A0I upgraded to the LS2 &q= uot;Yukon" coils and the miss was gone. =A0

=A0

Mark S.

On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 4:56 PM, Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net> wrote:

I have developed a m= iss above the staging point.=A0 The fuel pressure seems ok, the mixture als= o seems ok.=A0 I am at a loss.

=A0

To try and troublesh= oot, I am considering getting above the staging point and disabling the pri= maries and secondaries to see if I can identify which is the cause.=A0 Sinc= e it runs ok below the stage, I assume it is not the primaries.

=A0

I recently changed m= y fuel filters and installed a large canister filter.=A0 There seems a poss= ibility =A0that I introduced some contamination that clogged an injector.= =A0 Other wise it seems it must be spark related.=A0 This just happened one= flight ago.=A0 The engine was running fine, till that last takeoff.=A0 It = was missing and would only get about 6300 rpm.=A0 After take off, I turned = the prop back and slowed the engine down to below that number and it smooth= ed out and ran fine the res of the flight.=A0 Today while taxiing around, I= noticed that the miss was back.

=A0

Opinions welcomed.

=A0

Bill B=

=A0

=A0

=A0

=A0

=A0

=A0



--00248c176baedaf2be049dedf58e--