X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fmailhost05.isp.att.net ([207.115.11.55] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c2o) with ESMTP id 4893105 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 06 Mar 2011 22:31:08 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=207.115.11.55; envelope-from=bbradburry@bellsouth.net Received: from desktop (adsl-85-145-79.mco.bellsouth.net[98.85.145.79]) by isp.att.net (frfwmhc05) with SMTP id <20110307033029H0500b5mjse>; Mon, 7 Mar 2011 03:30:29 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [98.85.145.79] From: "Bill Bradburry" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Miss above staging point. Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 22:30:31 -0500 Message-ID: <03F8740922D249258D8737F275DB0001@Desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0015_01CBDC4E.1A4C9F20" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AcvcbTF8q6hyjvIlR/KTlH3dL1CXkgACVfJA X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6001.18049 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01CBDC4E.1A4C9F20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mark, =20 Really sounds like a great day. I hope you are still remembering it = when that credit card bill comes in! :>) There is a downside to getting the plane flying! Gas Prices! =20 So why did you go away from Mogas and do the more expensive 100LL? Also = why so much 2 stroke oil? You seem to be mixing at about 2 oz per gal. Are = you getting oil into your crankcase at that level? I am using =BE to 1 oz = and I get drops flicked onto the bottom of the plane from the exhaust. =20 If I can get this tuning issue resolved, I plan to try and fly tomorrow. = =20 =20 Bill B =20 _____ =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Mark Steitle Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 9:12 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Miss above staging point. =20 Bill,=20 =20 Yes, today was a perfect day to fly in Central Texas, mild temps, practically zero wind, and severe clear. Since I needed fuel, I decided = to fly down to my favorite fuel stop, Halletsville, TX (3T5) to gas up. It = is about 45 miles SE from Lockhart. I had about 12 gallons in each tank, = so it was time to re-fuel. Well, I flew over and landed at 3T5, taxi up to = the pump, and guess what.... the pumps were out of order. @$#%&%$ OK, now = I have about 19 gallons and need to find some fuel. So, I head over to Fayette Regional (34R) (our favorite BBQ spot) about 30 miles due north. = It wasn't the closest airport, but I know that they have fuel there, and = their pumps work! I flew up to 34R and landed with about 15 gallons left in = the two tanks, not too risky, but the least amount of fuel I've ever flown = with to date. Well, the pumps at 34R were working and I pumped in 75 gallons = and added over 2 qts of 2-stroke oil. After almost maxing out my credit = card, I taxied out, did a run-up, rolled out onto the active, and flew back to = my home base, Lockhart. So, all I accomplished was filling the tanks and burning 15 gallons of 100LL, but had a great time doing it. It was kind = of like going for a $100 hamburger, except without the burger. =20 =20 The p-port 20b ran flawlessly. Oil and coolant temps were below 160*F = the whole way. Engine didn't miss a beat while cruising along at 197mph = (per EM-2) @ 5100rpm (M/T prop dialed down to full coarse). I must say, the = new LS2 coils sure appear to have cured the occasional intermittent mis-fire problem. The engine just hummed along as sweet as pie. As they say, = life doesn't get any better than this. You guys/gals that haven't yet flown, don't dismay, your time is coming. =20 =20 Mark S. Lancair ES, N/A P-Port 20B Lockhart, Tx =20 On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 6:21 PM, Bill Bradburry = wrote: Did you fly! We need a report! =20 Bill B =20 _____ =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Mark Steitle Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 9:03 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Miss above staging point. =20 Bill,=20 Maybe Lynn can comment on this, but personally I don't sandblast plugs. = My suggestion is to replace the plugs with new ones. Most of my mis-fire problems have been cured by either tuning or new spark plugs.=20 =20 Mark =20 P.S. Its a beautiful Spring day in Austin and I'm heading to the = airport (will fly, assuming everything checks out).=20 =20 On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 7:14 AM, Bill Bradburry = wrote: Mark, The car the engine came from had about 1400 miles on it. I have run = about 40 gallons of gas thru it. I will have to check the coils for = darkening. Also same for plug wires. I am using the stock Renesis plugs. I might = try cleaning them. =20 On a previous occasion, I flooded the engine and it would not start till = I sand blasted the plugs. After that it started normally. =20 This problem just happened on the second takeoff. The engine was = running smoothly at all rpms till I made the second takeoff. It started to miss = and pop and the rpm would only go to about 6300. after I got in the air, I dialed the prop back and the rpm was around 6000 and the engine smoothed = out again and was ok the rest of the flight. Now it is missing on the = ground above the staging point. I have mine set at 16 inches. I watched the mixture and it seems fine on both sides of the staging = point and also on up in the higher rpms. The only difference is that the = engine starts to miss.erratically. I didn=92t notice the EGT as Tracy = suggested. I need to switch to the page that shows the temp of both of them and check that today. =20 Bill =20 _____ =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Mark Steitle Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2011 9:50 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Miss above staging point. =20 Bill,=20 =20 How do the coils look (underneath)? Are there dark areas in the potting material where they have gotten hot? There is a history of coil = failures in the RX-8's after about 30k miles. =20 =20 How many hours on the plugs/wires? How do they look? =20 Mark =20 On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 8:36 PM, Bill Bradburry = wrote: Mark, =20 I have the stock Renesis coils. =20 Bill B =20 _____ =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Mark Steitle Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2011 6:19 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Miss above staging point. =20 Bill,=20 =20 Which coils are you running? I chased an intermittent miss which = occurred in the 6000 -7000 range. I upgraded to the LS2 "Yukon" coils and the = miss was gone. =20 =20 Mark S. On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 4:56 PM, Bill Bradburry = wrote: I have developed a miss above the staging point. The fuel pressure = seems ok, the mixture also seems ok. I am at a loss. =20 To try and troubleshoot, I am considering getting above the staging = point and disabling the primaries and secondaries to see if I can identify = which is the cause. Since it runs ok below the stage, I assume it is not the primaries. =20 I recently changed my fuel filters and installed a large canister = filter. There seems a possibility that I introduced some contamination that = clogged an injector. Other wise it seems it must be spark related. This just happened one flight ago. The engine was running fine, till that last takeoff. It was missing and would only get about 6300 rpm. After take = off, I turned the prop back and slowed the engine down to below that number = and it smoothed out and ran fine the res of the flight. Today while taxiing around, I noticed that the miss was back. =20 Opinions welcomed. =20 Bill B =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01CBDC4E.1A4C9F20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Mark,

 

Really sounds like a great = day.  I hope you are still remembering it when that credit card bill comes = in!  :>)  There is a downside to getting the plane flying!  Gas = Prices!

 

So why did you go away from Mogas = and do the more expensive 100LL?  Also why so much 2 stroke oil?  You = seem to be mixing at about 2 oz per gal.  Are you getting oil into your crankcase at that level?  I am using ¾ to 1 oz and I get = drops flicked onto the bottom of the plane from the = exhaust.

 

If I can get this tuning issue = resolved, I plan to try and fly tomorrow. 

 

Bill B

 

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Mark Steitle
Sent: Sunday, March 06, = 2011 9:12 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Miss above staging point.

 

Bill, 

 

Yes, today was a perfect day to fly in Central Texas, mild temps, practically zero wind, and severe clear.  Since I needed fuel, I decided to fly down to my favorite fuel = stop, Halletsville, TX (3T5) to gas up.  It is about 45 miles SE from Lockhart.  I = had about 12 gallons in each tank, so it was time to re-fuel.  Well, I flew = over and landed at 3T5, taxi up to the pump, and guess what.... the pumps were = out of order.  @$#%&%$  OK, now I have about 19 gallons and need = to find some fuel.  So, I head over to Fayette Regional (34R) (our favorite = BBQ spot) about 30 miles due north.  It wasn't the closest airport, but = I know that they have fuel there, and their pumps work!  I flew up to 34R = and landed with about 15 gallons left in the two tanks, not too risky, but = the least amount of fuel I've ever flown with to date.  Well, the pumps = at 34R were working and I pumped in 75 gallons and added over 2 qts of 2-stroke = oil.  After almost maxing out my credit card, I taxied out, did a = run-up, rolled out onto the active, and flew back to my home base, Lockhart. =  So, all I accomplished was filling the tanks and burning 15 gallons of = 100LL, but had a great time doing it.  It was kind of like going for a $100 hamburger, except without the burger. =  

 

The p-port 20b ran flawlessly.  Oil and coolant temps were = below 160*F the whole way.  Engine didn't miss a beat while cruising = along at 197mph (per EM-2) @ 5100rpm (M/T prop dialed down to full coarse). =  I must say, the new LS2 coils sure appear to have cured the occasional = intermittent mis-fire problem.  The engine just hummed along as sweet as pie. =  As they say, life doesn't get any better than this.  You guys/gals = that haven't yet flown, don't dismay, your time is coming. =  

 

Mark S.

Lancair ES, N/A P-Port 20B

Lockhart, Tx   =  

On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 6:21 PM, Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net>= wrote:

Did you fly!  We need a = report!

 

Bill B

 

From: Rotary motors in = aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Mark = Steitle
Sent: Sunday, March 06, = 2011 9:03 AM


To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Miss above staging point.

 

Bill, 

Maybe = Lynn can = comment on this, but personally I don't sandblast plugs.  My suggestion is to = replace the plugs with new ones.  Most of my mis-fire problems have been cured = by either tuning or new spark plugs. 

 

Mark

 

P.S. =  Its a beautiful Spring day in Austin and I'm heading to the airport (will fly, assuming everything checks out). 

 

On = Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 7:14 AM, Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net> = wrote:

Mark,

The car the engine came from had about 1400 miles on = it.  I have run about 40 gallons of gas thru it.  I will have to check the = coils for darkening.  Also same for plug wires.  I am using the = stock Renesis plugs.  I might try cleaning = them.

 

On a previous occasion, I flooded the engine and it would = not start till I sand blasted the plugs.  After that it started = normally.

 

This problem just happened on the second takeoff.  The = engine was running smoothly at all rpms till I made the second takeoff.  = It started to miss and pop and the rpm would only go to about 6300.  after I = got in the air, I dialed the prop back and the rpm was around 6000 and the = engine smoothed out again and was ok the rest of the flight.  Now it is = missing on the ground above the staging point.  I have mine set at 16 = inches.

I watched the mixture and it seems fine on both sides of the staging point and also on up in the higher rpms.  The only = difference is that the engine starts to miss.erratically.  I didn’t notice = the EGT as Tracy suggested.  I need to switch to the page that shows the temp of both of them and = check that today.

 

Bill

 

From: Rotary motors in = aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Mark = Steitle
Sent: Saturday, March 05, = 2011 9:50 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Miss above staging point.

 

Bill, 

 

How = do the coils look (underneath)?  Are there dark areas in the potting material = where they have gotten hot?  There is a history of coil failures in the RX-8's = after about 30k miles.    

 

How = many hours on the plugs/wires?  How do they look?

 

Mark =  

On = Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 8:36 PM, Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net> = wrote:

Mark,

 

I have the stock Renesis coils.

 

Bill B

 

From: Rotary motors in = aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Mark = Steitle
Sent: Saturday, March 05, = 2011 6:19 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Miss above staging point.

 

Bill, 

 

Which = coils are you running?  I chased an intermittent miss which occurred in the = 6000 -7000 range.  I upgraded to the LS2 "Yukon" coils and the miss was = gone.  

 

Mark = S.

On = Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 4:56 PM, Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net> = wrote:

I have developed a miss above the staging point.  The = fuel pressure seems ok, the mixture also seems ok.  I am at a = loss.

 

To try and troubleshoot, I am considering getting above the = staging point and disabling the primaries and secondaries to see if I can = identify which is the cause.  Since it runs ok below the stage, I assume it = is not the primaries.

 

I recently changed my fuel filters and installed a large = canister filter.  There seems a possibility  that I introduced some contamination that clogged an injector.  Other wise it seems it = must be spark related.  This just happened one flight ago.  The engine = was running fine, till that last takeoff.  It was missing and would = only get about 6300 rpm.  After take off, I turned the prop back and slowed = the engine down to below that number and it smoothed out and ran fine the = res of the flight.  Today while taxiing around, I noticed that the miss = was back.

 

Opinions welcomed.

 

Bill B

 

 

 

 

 

 

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