X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from imr-da06.mx.aol.com ([205.188.169.203] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c2o) with ESMTP id 4892750 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 06 Mar 2011 13:45:33 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.188.169.203; envelope-from=Bktrub@aol.com Received: from imo-da04.mx.aol.com (imo-da04.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.202]) by imr-da06.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id p26Iioqg030272 for ; Sun, 6 Mar 2011 13:44:50 -0500 Received: from Bktrub@aol.com by imo-da04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id q.fbe.c76ea28 (55729) for ; Sun, 6 Mar 2011 13:44:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtprly-mc02.mx.aol.com (smtprly-mc02.mx.aol.com [64.12.95.98]) by cia-md03.mx.aol.com (v129.9) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMD034-d3cf4d73d61715f; Sun, 06 Mar 2011 13:44:43 -0500 Received: from webmail-m017 (webmail-m017.sim.aol.com [64.12.101.101]) by smtprly-mc02.mx.aol.com (v129.9) with ESMTP id MAILSMTPRLYMC021-d3cf4d73d61715f; Sun, 06 Mar 2011 13:44:39 -0500 References: To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Miss above staging point. Date: Sun, 06 Mar 2011 13:44:39 -0500 X-AOL-IP: 69.84.254.253 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: bktrub@aol.com X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CDAA45AEE95E01_1D28_40AB5_webmail-m017.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 33356-STANDARD Received: from 69.84.254.253 by webmail-m017.sysops.aol.com (64.12.101.101) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Sun, 06 Mar 2011 13:44:39 -0500 Message-Id: <8CDAA45AEDD7717-1D28-1E04B@webmail-m017.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: Bktrub@aol.com ----------MB_8CDAA45AEE95E01_1D28_40AB5_webmail-m017.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Bill, you are describing what is happening with my engine exactly. Please= find out what is going on with it so you'll save me the trouble. : ) Brian Trubee -----Original Message----- From: Bill Bradburry To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Sun, Mar 6, 2011 6:20 am Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Miss above staging point. Tracy, =20 Last upgrade was 7 Nov 07. for both the EC-2 and EM-2. I am not certain= what was done or when the CAS terminator would have been done??? =20 Bill =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Be= half Of Tracy Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 8:39 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Miss above staging point. =20 Hi Bill, =20 When you just need a quick check of differential on EGTs, glance at the EG= T bar graphs on the main page of EM2. If the bars are close to the same= height you know they're OK. Each of the segments on the bars represents= about 20 degrees F. One or 2 segments is not a problem, if there is a= rotor differential problem bad enough to cause a miss due to mixture or= ignition, it will be well over 100 degrees in difference, i.e. it will= be obvious. Remember which bar was the low one and that will tell you= which rotor to start looking at. One other thought: Since you are running the Renesis, did you have the= EC2 upgraded with the Renesis CAS terminator? Don't know if you were fol= lowing the thread when that was being discussed a couple of years ago. Th= e EC2 was originally designed for the 2nd gen CAS and the Renesis was diff= erent enough to need a change. High speed miss or hard starting were the= symptoms. Tracy On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 8:14 AM, Bill Bradburry = wrote: Mark, The car the engine came from had about 1400 miles on it. I have run about= 40 gallons of gas thru it. I will have to check the coils for darkening.= Also same for plug wires. I am using the stock Renesis plugs. I might= try cleaning them. =20 On a previous occasion, I flooded the engine and it would not start till= I sand blasted the plugs. After that it started normally. =20 This problem just happened on the second takeoff. The engine was running= smoothly at all rpms till I made the second takeoff. It started to miss= and pop and the rpm would only go to about 6300. after I got in the air,= I dialed the prop back and the rpm was around 6000 and the engine smoothe= d out again and was ok the rest of the flight. Now it is missing on the= ground above the staging point. I have mine set at 16 inches. I watched the mixture and it seems fine on both sides of the staging point= and also on up in the higher rpms. The only difference is that the engin= e starts to miss.erratically. I didn=E2=80=99t notice the EGT as Tracy su= ggested. I need to switch to the page that shows the temp of both of them= and check that today. =20 Bill =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Be= half Of Mark Steitle Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2011 9:50 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Miss above staging point. =20 Bill,=20 =20 How do the coils look (underneath)? Are there dark areas in the potting= material where they have gotten hot? There is a history of coil failures= in the RX-8's after about 30k miles. =20 =20 How many hours on the plugs/wires? How do they look? =20 Mark =20 On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 8:36 PM, Bill Bradburry = wrote: Mark, =20 I have the stock Renesis coils. =20 Bill B =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Be= half Of Mark Steitle Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2011 6:19 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Miss above staging point. =20 Bill,=20 =20 Which coils are you running? I chased an intermittent miss which occurred= in the 6000 -7000 range. I upgraded to the LS2 "Yukon" coils and the mis= s was gone. =20 =20 Mark S. On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 4:56 PM, Bill Bradburry = wrote: I have developed a miss above the staging point. The fuel pressure seems= ok, the mixture also seems ok. I am at a loss. =20 To try and troubleshoot, I am considering getting above the staging point= and disabling the primaries and secondaries to see if I can identify whic= h is the cause. Since it runs ok below the stage, I assume it is not the= primaries. =20 I recently changed my fuel filters and installed a large canister filter.= There seems a possibility that I introduced some contamination that clo= gged an injector. Other wise it seems it must be spark related. This jus= t happened one flight ago. The engine was running fine, till that last ta= keoff. It was missing and would only get about 6300 rpm. After take off,= I turned the prop back and slowed the engine down to below that number an= d it smoothed out and ran fine the res of the flight. Today while taxiing= around, I noticed that the miss was back. =20 Opinions welcomed. =20 Bill B =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 ----------MB_8CDAA45AEE95E01_1D28_40AB5_webmail-m017.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8"
 Bill, you are descr= ibing what is happening with my engine exactly. Please find out what is go= ing on with it so you'll save me the trouble. : )
 
Brian Trubee



-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Sun, Mar 6, 2011 6:20 am
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Miss above staging point.

Tracy= ,
 
Last upgrade was 7= Nov 07. for both the EC-2 and EM-2.  I am not certain what was done= or when the CAS terminator would have been done???
 
Bill<= /div>
 
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Tracy
Sent: Sunday, March 06, 20= 11 8:39 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircr= aft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re:= Miss above staging point.
 
Hi Bill, 
When you just need a quick check of differential on EGTs, glance at the EG= T bar graphs on the main page of EM2.  If the bars are close to the= same height you know they're OK.  Each of the segments on the bars= represents about 20 degrees F.   One or 2 segments is not a problem,= if there is a rotor differential problem bad enough to cause a miss due= to mixture or ignition, it will be well over 100 degrees in difference,= i.e.  it will be obvious.   Remember which bar was the low= one and that will tell you which rotor to start looking at.

One other thought:   Since you are running the Renesis,  di= d you have the EC2 upgraded with the Renesis CAS terminator?  Don't= know if you were following the thread when that was being discussed a cou= ple of years ago.  The EC2 was originally designed for the 2nd gen CA= S and the Renesis was different enough to need a change.  High speed= miss or hard starting were the symptoms.

Tracy
On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 8:14 AM, Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net>= wrote:
Mark,
The car the engine came from= had about 1400 miles on it.  I have run about 40 gallons of gas thru= it.  I will have to check the coils for darkening.  Also same= for plug wires.  I am using the stock Renesis plugs.  I might= try cleaning them.
 
On a previous occasion, I flo= oded the engine and it would not start till I sand blasted the plugs. = ; After that it started normally.
 
This problem just happened on= the second takeoff.  The engine was running smoothly at all rpms til= l I made the second takeoff.  It started to miss and pop and the rpm= would only go to about 6300.  after I got in the air, I dialed the= prop back and the rpm was around 6000 and the engine smoothed out again= and was ok the rest of the flight.  Now it is missing on the ground= above the staging point.  I have mine set at 16 inches.
I watched the mixture and it= seems fine on both sides of the staging point and also on up in the highe= r rpms.  The only difference is that the engine starts to miss.errati= cally.  I didn=E2=80=99t notice the EGT as Tracy suggested.  I= need to switch to the page that shows the temp of both of them and check= that today.
 
Bill
 
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Mark Steitle
Sent: Saturday, March 05,= 2011 9:50 PM

To: Rotary motors in aircr= aft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re:= Miss above staging point.
 
Bill, 
 
How do the coils look (underneath)?  Are there dark areas= in the potting material where they have gotten hot?  There is a hist= ory of coil failures in the RX-8's after about 30k miles.    
 
How many hours on the plugs/wires?  How do they look?
 
Mark  
On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 8:36 PM, Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net> wrote:
Mark,
 
I have the stock Renesis coil= s.
 
Bill B
 
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Mark Steitle
Sent: Saturday, March 05,= 2011 6:19 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircr= aft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re:= Miss above staging point.
 
Bill, 
 
Which coils are you running?  I chased an intermittent mis= s which occurred in the 6000 -7000 range.  I upgraded to the LS2 "Yuk= on" coils and the miss was gone.  
 
Mark S.
On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 4:56 PM, Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net> wrote:
I have developed a miss above= the staging point.  The fuel pressure seems ok, the mixture also see= ms ok.  I am at a loss.
 
To try and troubleshoot, I am= considering getting above the staging point and disabling the primaries= and secondaries to see if I can identify which is the cause.  Since= it runs ok below the stage, I assume it is not the primaries.
 
I recently changed my fuel fi= lters and installed a large canister filter.  There seems a possibili= ty  that I introduced some contamination that clogged an injector.&nb= sp; Other wise it seems it must be spark related.  This just happened= one flight ago.  The engine was running fine, till that last takeoff= .  It was missing and would only get about 6300 rpm.  After take= off, I turned the prop back and slowed the engine down to below that numb= er and it smoothed out and ran fine the res of the flight.  Today whi= le taxiing around, I noticed that the miss was back.
 
Opinions welcomed.
 
Bill B
 
 
 
 
 
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