X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fmailhost06.isp.att.net ([207.115.11.56] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.7) with ESMTP id 4313310 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 13 May 2010 11:48:38 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=207.115.11.56; envelope-from=bbradburry@bellsouth.net Received: from desktop (adsl-85-113-131.mco.bellsouth.net[98.85.113.131]) by isp.att.net (frfwmhc06) with SMTP id <20100513154801H0600premle>; Thu, 13 May 2010 15:48:01 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [98.85.113.131] From: "Bill Bradburry" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: alternative water pump Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 11:48:01 -0400 Message-ID: <7386F469173D49A2BC8C1ADA7D84197C@Desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01CAF292.2465D180" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AcryqhodPlVmYIuhSGeQIrtZy3eGNAACF5GA X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6001.18049 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01CAF292.2465D180 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bill. I am really good at reading someone else's graphs.Ha! :>) So does this show that at 5594 rpm, and 6 lbs pressure, when you would expect 38 GPM, you actually got 24 GPM? You are very close to the curve for 3730 FPM. Is that what you were running during your test? Or, as would be expected, am I misreading your graphs? :>) Bill B _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bill Schertz Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 10:39 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: alternative water pump Back in 2002 I measured the flow from a 13-B pump, attached to the engine but driven with an electric motor. The curve is attached. I ran the pump at 3 different RPM, established by changing the pulley size on the motor. At 5594 rpm, the pump produced 19 psi at zero flow, and 44 gpm at 0 psi. At lower RPM, the pump of course pumps less. The other test I did was to measure the flow through one core of the two I was using for my installation. That is the curve going up to the right with the red dots as the experimental points. Since I am running my cores in parallel, the right hand rising curve is a 'calculated' flow response for the parallel cores. Finally, I hooked up the cores to the system, and pumped water through them. The single large point represents where the flow and pressure came out, very close to the calculated expected response. All flow measurements were done by the "bucket and stop-watch" technique, with multiple runs to get the flow. Bill Schertz KIS Cruiser #4045 N343BS Phase I testing From: Al Gietzen Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 11:54 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: alternative water pump Al, Are you sure of the 40 GPM? That seems like a lot. My radiator in/out is 1.25 inches, so the water would be traveling at 628 feet per minute at that flow rate. That is over 7 miles per hour! Bill B When my 20B (with a 13B pump that Atkins referred to as 'high flow') was on the dyno the measured flow was 48 gpm with the standard pulleys. I expect the dyno cooling loop was fairly low pressure drop compared to our typical systems, so I'm just guessing 40 gpm is in the ballpark. 628 fpm (10.5 ft/sec) would not be considered very high - - above 15 ft/sec I'd consider high. Al ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01CAF292.2465D180 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Bill.

I am really good at reading someone = else’s graphs…Ha!   :>)

 

So does this show that at 5594 rpm, = and 6 lbs pressure, when you would expect 38 GPM, you actually got 24 = GPM?  You are very close to the curve for 3730 FPM.  Is that what you were = running during your test?

 

Or, as would be expected, am I = misreading your graphs?  :>)

 

Bill B

 

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bill Schertz
Sent: Thursday, May 13, = 2010 10:39 AM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: alternative water pump

 

Back in 2002 I measured the flow from a 13-B pump, = attached to the engine but driven with an electric motor. The curve is attached. = I ran the pump at 3 different RPM, established by changing the pulley size on = the motor. At 5594 rpm, the pump produced 19 psi at zero flow, and 44 gpm at = 0 psi. At lower RPM, the pump of course pumps = less.

 

The other test I did was to measure the flow through = one core of the two I was using for my installation. That is the curve going = up to the right with the red dots as the experimental points. Since I am = running my cores in parallel, the right hand rising curve is a 'calculated' flow = response for the parallel cores.

 

Finally, I hooked up the cores to the system, and = pumped water through them. The single large point represents where the flow and pressure came out, very close to the calculated expected = response.

 

All flow measurements were done by the "bucket = and stop-watch" technique, with multiple runs to get the = flow.

 

Bill Schertz
KIS Cruiser #4045
N343BS
Phase I testing

 

From: Al = Gietzen

Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 11:54 AM

Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: alternative water pump

 

Al,=

Are you sure of = the 40 GPM?  That seems like a lot.  My radiator in/out is 1.25 = inches, so the water would be traveling at 628 feet per minute at that flow = rate.  That is over 7 miles per hour!

 

Bill = B

When my 20B (with a 13B pump that Atkins referred to as ‘high = flow’) was on the dyno the measured flow was 48 gpm with the standard = pulleys.  I expect the dyno cooling loop was fairly low pressure drop compared to = our typical systems, so I’m just guessing 40 gpm is in the ballpark.  628 = fpm (10.5 ft/sec) would not be considered very high - - above 15 ft/sec = I’d consider high.

Al

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