Mailing List flyrotary@lancaironline.net Message #5103
From: <Lehanover@aol.com>
Subject: Comments on Comments
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2004 20:22:23 EST
To: <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Improve the engines:

And there is no reason that the private industry can't do this.  Lycoming started out making sewing machines and bicycles, they got into engines because of demand in the market place.

There is no reason for the big two to do anything to improve anything. There is only the bottom line. They have a totally captive audience. You have to buy OEM parts by law.
They have a giant cash cow running now. Why screw around with it. If they could think of a way to ship you an empty box with Lycoming stamped on the side, and get away with it, they
would be doing that. It’s just business to them.  Every year at OSH and SNF there are new engines.  And then the following year they are gone.  The people that show up with them must not be racers.


Well now, if that was United Technologies standing there with that new design instead
an average guy with a great idea and no money, would it be successful? You can bet the farm it would. United Technologies would lowball request for quotes from airframe builders, who would be idiots not to use the new "Pratt and Whitney" Which P&W is going to give away (in effect) in large quantities to all of the major airframe manufacturers.

How so? There is a filter manufacturer that makes a very high (aircraft and submarine) quality line of products. Let us call them Giant Filter Corp. Their catalogue is on the shelves of every airplane and ship manufacturer. So airplane builder Skunk Works, publishes a top drawing with size and performance data. Burst strength, absolute micron rating and so on, for a 4,000 PSI hydraulic flight control system, on the new Skunk Works model Whatever.

A number of filter manufacturers submit drawings with the same values as those specified on the Request for quote top drawing, Along with their best price per unit and quantity price break structure. So let us say that three companies are around $2,200.00 per unit. But our friends at Giant Filter Corp come in at $125.00, and a much better price break structure. Everyone in the filter industry knows that Giant Filter Corp is going to loose their butts on every unit. But (excuse the pun) Giant Filter doesn't care because they will then be the OEM for a total of thirty two filter assemblies on the Skunk Works model Whatever. When your beloved Federal Government starts buying replacement elements and complete assemblies, the price is now $12,000.00, and the replacement element is $2,650.00.  Out year sales for this filter alone are estimated at 5.5 million. And they own thirty two filters on this airframe. That same Giant Filter Corp filter is also in their commercial catalogue with a different part number, as is the element. The price is $2,200 and the elements are $125.00 each. The prices would come down because we the people, could start our own engine company. There is no reason why this can't happen.  The point I have been trying to get across is that there have been dozens of attempts to create viable aircraft engines by very qualified and well funded people.  Orenda's Chrysler conversion comes to mind as a group of "racers" that tried to make big block Chryslers run with the larger Lycomings and even turbines.  Lets not forget Porsche and their PFM-3200 engines.  One can hardly suggest that the Porsche company does not have the "racers" to back up its 50 year history of performance cars.  They got the engines certified, Mooney built planes for them, and they got STC's to install them in C-172s.  These and others were far from backyard efforts.  They were economically unviable for some reason.


First you should point out that both engines are outstanding pieces of engineering. And years ahead of the big two, lacking only a big price advantage that would have generated any interest at all. The price would have to be low enough that the conversion would make some kind of sense to potential customers. I think the Orenda is a proprietary casting along BB Chevy lines. Neither effort was well funded. United Technologies could buy both operations and run them through a shredder with a weeks worth of the coffee fund.

If you want to play, set aside 100 million and be prepared to support that investment for ten years before you get back anything. But by then all new airframes will be equipped with your new design, because you will be practically giving them to Piper and others. The big two will be making sewing machines again. Or airboat motors that won’t kill my friends when it swallows a valve.

Drop in to Sun&Fun and take a look at the rotary engine parking row at the west end of the show line. Maybe a rotary will win the Sun 100 again. If Tracy would let me work over his engine for a few weeks, he could put that record speed up where no piston engine could ever find it.

Lynn E. Hanover.    
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