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In a message dated 11/5/2002 7:11:20 PM US Eastern Standard Time, marv@lancaironline.net writes:
Posted for "Martin" <wankel@telia.com>:
Time 4 mister Hanover to think things trough.......;-)
The 12A rotor housing is 10 mm narrower in whit than the 13B.
70 mm for the 12A and 80 mm for the 13B.
(60 mm for 10A )
The 12A is 1146 cc AND noting else....
The 13B is 1308 cc .......
Don't mix things up whit insurance policy on cars....or the 1.8 times you
have to multiply the engine cc for racing, just so the UN-normal 4-bangers
can keep up.
We do have a 1.8 x cc rule here in Europe.
Aren't automatic gearboxes only for disabled people ??
And yes, the only substitute for cubic centimeters is a Rotary engine....!!
Happy rotation !!
/Martin
MS 880B...ready 4 a 13B
Gee whiz Martin,
Read it again. I would rather see any Mazda carry on life, even with a different engine than go to the shredder, because I love Mazdas. So unless you build your engine from all new parts, (very expensive) that means that a Mazda of some kind bit the dust. In some cases just because the engine was removed. What better fate for these hulks than to be reengined with a 32 Valve Cadillac V-8 or a small block Chevy? Conversion kits are available for this. More Mazdas on the road for longer is better for us, yes? Most sanctioning organizations (including the Sports Car Club of America) refer to the 12A displacement as 2292 CCs and the 13B as 2600 CCs. The rational is that to compare the rotary engine to a conventional 4 stroke you must rotate the crank through 720 degrees of rotation. This is to allow all of the cylinders of a 4 stroke to cycle. If you do that to a rotary, what do you get? The data plate on the 12A powered cars says that the engine displaces 1147 CCs I suspect that this is rounded off a bit to get a whole number. Otherwise the answer is 2294 CCs. So for the sake of determining what cars the Mazda has to compete against, the engine is 2292 CCs. Or 2600 CCs for the 13B powered cars.
In comparing the 12A and 13B the comment "there is no substitute for cubic inches, or CCs" refers to the larger displacement 13B having the potential for making more power. This is a general truism and is not really true. The heavier rotors and longer crank of the 13B limit maximum RPM to less than 9,500.
The 12A can go to 10,000 RPM. This with unlightened rotors in both cases.
If you add the super lite rotors maybe 9,700 for the 13B and 10,700 for the 12A.
You have to turn it faster but you can equal the power of a 13B. This data is of no value for the aircraft installation. But just for Oshkosh a turbo 13B with lite rotors could put on one heck of an airshow. For the long haul, the engines will be turning between 5,000 and 6,500 RPM. In this RPM range, the 13B is king. The 13B rotor housing is about 1/2 inch wider than the 12A. And so it is, Just About.
Being old and wise (I think) the automatic trans is such a cool idea that young guys miss it every time. The rear end gears in a Mazda look like toys. The rotary has little torque just off idle (notice the 45 pound flywheels) and can barely get the car rolling. With a big V-8 up front, you would need a spare diff in the trunk to get anywhere. The less obvious problem is your wife will not stand for this new toy unless she can drive it too. Years ago a stranger rang my doorbell. He had a new Fiat Brava with under 100 miles on it sitting in my driveway. He also had a trunk full of racing parts he wanted installed on his new car. His wife waited in another fiat (white 72 Sport Coupe). I did the whole 9 yards (an aircraft term). Wild cams,
dual 42 DCNFs headers, lite flywheel, MSD ignition, adjustable cam pulleys etc. It was on hell of a fun car to drive fast. Well, in a straight line anyway. It was not at all fun for his wife to drive, and she was stuck away from home a couple of times with fouled plugs (even with the MSD). So we backed off on the cam choice and the car became a delight to drive. He is now the CEO of Collier-Seeley corp. in Los Angeles, and still has a Fiat sport.
So with a V-8 and an automatic trans you could have one real nice car. You could eat BMWs with it. Your wife would love it, and the original rear end would last forever. And you could used the rotary engine in your airplane.
My friend Tom Pomeroy has no right arm and no feet. He is also two time national champion in formula continental, using the same manual trans as everybody else in the class. He drove my Lola Can Am car one time and I had to weld a washer
to a nut and jam nut that onto the top of the shift lever. He would stick his hook through the washer and wrap a heavy rubber band around it to keep his hook from jumping out. He can out drive me and everybody else he competes against. He is also the most incredible mechanic you ever saw. He is a computer whiz and does 3D cad for a living. He and his wife as a team won the Chrysler national trouble shooting competition while in high school. (best mechanics in the USA).
So relatively speaking, it is I who is disabled.
Lynn E. Hanover
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