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From: "Kelly Troyer" <keltro@att.net>
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject:  Turbo Considerations....careful, its long
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 16:46:21 +0000
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John and All,
      I am also looking seriously at the "Turbonetics" TO4E..............Ca=
n you clear
up something for me............The post below seems to indicate that the "C=
osy Girrls"
have a .96 A/R turbine housing but from previous posts I thought they had a=
 1.15 A/R
housing for more boost at higher altitude............Also curious if your t=
urbine housing
is split (two openings) or one opening ?.............You say that on takeof=
f you are at
about half throttle to stay at 42" mp.............Can you tell me how much =
throttle you
need at 12,000 ft to maintain 42" MP ?...................

Thanks,
--
Kelly Troyer=20
"Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine=20
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=20
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=20


-------------- Original message from John Slade <jslade@canardaviation.com>=
: --------------=20

Hi Chris,
I can provide one piece of second hand information and a lot of sympathy...=
.
With regard to the ceramic bearings, I was told that the extra expense wasn=
't necessary, and that the 'big shaft' had been proved to hold up on an air=
craft, while no-one (he or I knew) had yet flown ceramic bearings.

On the sympathy side - I can relate to your  agony here.  After blowing two=
 stock turbos and one modified hybrid (one of which was at 11,000' and took=
 out my apex seals) I was, shall we say, under a little more pressure to ge=
t the decision right this time.

After studying turbo maps and specs and reading everything I could find, I =
eventually took the same logic on the turbo choice that I did on the engine=
 rebuild and on aluminum welding - "this is something you learn to be an ex=
pert in over many years, not months. I do not have the time or tenacity to =
become a true expert in this field, and I don't wish to employ the skills o=
f an amateur (me) .... so I need to use the skills of someone who IS a true=
 expert." Next problem - how do you know who is a true expert and who is ju=
st claiming to be one?=20

I came across a turbo guy on the http://canardaviation.com forum (the initi=
al communications should be in the archive) who was flying a turbo powered =
Subaru and seemed like a true expert. I think he's in Canada. He'd been "in=
to turbos" all his life and certainly sounded like he knew what he was talk=
ing about. I gave him all my specs in terms of engine, planned flight regim=
e and usage, and he came back with the list of goodies I now have. As with =
all critical recommendations, I checked with others whose knowledge I'd gai=
ned a healthy respect for. The Cozy Girrrls had independently arrived at al=
most exactly the same choices, except that they wanted more power at higher=
 altitudes than me, so they choose the 9.6 aspect ratio which would provide=
 less on take-off, but more over 18,000'. I had specified a max cruise alti=
tude of 15,000'. Greg Richter also used a Turbonetics, but without an auto =
wastegate. Leon in Aussie (another true expert who used to contribute heavi=
ly to this list) agreed that the specs and manufacturers were appropriate. =
At that point I put all the agony behind me and purchased EXACTLY what I wa=
s told would work. Thankfully (once I put the suction on the correct side o=
f the wastegate :) it did work and I've had no further turbo issues. The pu=
sh in your back on take-off feels like a Porche. I do the take-off based on=
 the manifold pressure keeping it below about 42 which equates to just over=
 half throttle.  I think the late great Paul Conner said it best after flyi=
ng in Dan Crugar's 0360 powered Cozy IV, then taking mine for a high speed =
taxi test. "Wooooo!"=20

You, of course, have an advantage over me - You can follow and examine my i=
nstallation. The cost of a commercial flight into West Palm (or Albany afte=
r early May) would be minor compared to the value gained. You'd be welcome =
any time.

Regards,
John


--

Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/

Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.=
html
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>John and All,</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I am also looking seriously at the "Tur=
bonetics" TO4E..............Can you clear</DIV>
<DIV>up something for me............The post below seems to indicate that t=
he "Cosy Girrls"</DIV>
<DIV>have a .96 A/R turbine housing but from previous posts I thought they =
had a 1.15 A/R</DIV>
<DIV>housing for more boost at higher altitude............Also curious if y=
our turbine housing</DIV>
<DIV>is split (two openings) or one opening ?.............You say that on t=
akeoff you are at</DIV>
<DIV>about half throttle to stay at 42" mp.............Can you tell me how =
much throttle you</DIV>
<DIV>need at 12,000 ft to maintain 42" MP ?...................</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Thanks,</DIV>
<DIV id=3Dsignature class=3Dsignature>--<BR>Kelly Troyer <BR>"Dyke Delta"_1=
3B ROTARY Engine <BR>"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 <BR>"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifol=
d <BR><BR><BR><BR></DIV><!--&lt;BR&gt;-->
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MAR=
GIN-LEFT: 5px">-------------- Original message from John Slade &lt;jslade@c=
anardaviation.com&gt;: -------------- <BR><BR>Hi Chris,<BR>I can provide on=
e piece of second hand information and a lot of sympathy....<BR>With regard=
 to the ceramic bearings, I was told that the extra expense wasn't necessar=
y, and that the 'big shaft' had been proved to hold up on an aircraft, whil=
e no-one (he or I knew) had yet flown ceramic bearings.<BR><BR>On the sympa=
thy side - I can relate to your&nbsp; agony here.&nbsp; After blowing two s=
tock turbos and one modified hybrid (one of which was at 11,000' and took o=
ut my apex seals) I was, shall we say, under a little more pressure to get =
the decision right this time.<BR><BR>After studying turbo maps and specs an=
d reading everything I could find, I eventually took the same logic on the =
turbo choice that I did on the engine rebuild and on aluminum welding - <I>=
"this is something you=20learn to be an expert in over many years, not mont=
hs. I do not have the time or tenacity to become a true expert in this fiel=
d, and I don't wish to employ the skills of an amateur (me) .... so I need =
to use the skills of someone who IS a true expert."</I> Next problem - how =
do you know who is a true expert and who is just claiming to be one? <BR><B=
R>I came across a turbo guy on the <A class=3Dmoz-txt-link-freetext href=3D=
"http://canardaviation.com/">http://canardaviation.com</A> forum (the initi=
al communications should be in the archive) who was flying a turbo powered =
Subaru and seemed like a true expert. I think he's in Canada. He'd been "in=
to turbos" all his life and certainly sounded like he knew what he was talk=
ing about. I gave him all my specs in terms of engine, planned flight regim=
e and usage, and he came back with the list of goodies I now have. As with =
all critical recommendations, I checked with others whose knowledge I'd gai=
ned a healthy respect for. The Cozy Girrrls had independently arrived at al=
most exactly the same choices, except that they wanted more power at higher=
 altitudes than me, so they choose the 9.6 aspect ratio which would provide=
 less on take-off, but more over 18,000'. I had specified a max cruise alti=
tude of 15,000'. Greg Richter also used a Turbonetics, but without an auto =
wastegate. Leon in Aussie (another true expert who used to contribute heavi=
ly to this list) agreed that the specs and manufacturers were appropriate. =
At that point I put all the agony behind me and purchased EXACTLY what I wa=
s told would work. Thankfully (once I put the suction on the correct side o=
f the wastegate :) it did work and I've had no further turbo issues. The pu=
sh in your back on take-off feels like a Porche. I do the take-off based on=
 the manifold pressure keeping it below about 42 which equates to just over=
 half throttle.&nbsp; I think the late great Paul Conner said it best after=
 flying in Dan Crugar's 0360 powered Cozy IV, then taking mine for a high s=
peed taxi test. <I>"Wooooo!"</I> <BR><BR>You, of course, have an advantage =
over me - You can follow and examine my installation. The cost of a commerc=
ial flight into West Palm (or Albany after early May) would be minor compar=
ed to the value gained. You'd be welcome any time.<BR><BR>Regards,<BR>John<=
BR><BR>
<P><PRE>--

Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/

Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.=
html</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>
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